Imes or Vhf?

LA Ceramics

LA Ceramics

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
293
Reaction score
63
I tried out the whole AG ceramill system. Scanner was REALLY slow, CAD is exocad (which I'm sure I could get used to- but I still prefer 3shape),the mill is 5 axis wet dry, the furnace was a furnace. I liked it a lot more when I designed in 3shape and just used the CAM and mill, but the system is so cumbersome and clunky. More suited to walking a single unit all the way through, not production work. If I had to get 50 FCZ crowns through that thing in a day I would go crazy. Main reason we didn't go for it was materials cost / limitations and AG selling as a package (not just CAM and mill).

I know your not saying the map 400 is slow,..Ceramill motion 2 cumbersome and clunky
50 fcz in a day,........scan, design, milling too I suppose,.....ok , ..too late JOE,..your already crazy.
 
Joe

Joe

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
270
Reaction score
28
to scan both arches, the die, and articulated model took over twenty minutes. That's crazy. It's smart optics running the scanner (the same technology as my 6 year old Sensable scanner - which is collecting dust in the basement),Exocad, and the least intuitive CAD software I've used. It seems cobbled together. Kind of reminds me of Dental wings or Procera. Not a ringing endorsement.

Are you saying 50 fcz in a day is crazy? Well, I guess I'm crazy. And, I really liked the mill. I would scan and design with 3shape and send to the Ceramill all day. If I believed they would ever come out with a 98mm puck holder, if they would sell the mill by itself, and if I thought they were serious about getting into the U.S. market and wouldn't get bought out again and change market strategies again, I would be on board. That's a lot of if's.
 
Affinity

Affinity

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
6,489
Reaction score
1,062
Who bought out amann? Why wouldnt they be serious about the US market? Theyve been around for decades in europe, theyre not going anywhere. What companies other than roland? are US based? Renfert, kavo, ivoclar, exocad, 3shape etc are all euro founded and based.
 
A

adamb4321

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
576
Reaction score
34
to scan both arches, the die, and articulated model took over twenty minutes. That's crazy. It's smart optics running the scanner (the same technology as my 6 year old Sensable scanner - which is collecting dust in the basement),Exocad, and the least intuitive CAD software I've used. It seems cobbled together. Kind of reminds me of Dental wings or Procera. Not a ringing endorsement.

.

How long does it take to scan both arches and the die and articulated models in your (3 Shape?) scanner?
 
A

adamb4321

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
576
Reaction score
34
Which 3 Shape scanner is that?
 
C

charles007

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,897
Reaction score
453
How long does it take to scan both arches and the die and articulated models in your (3 Shape?) scanner?
PLUS use virtual articulation..... Total time ?
 
Affinity

Affinity

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
6,489
Reaction score
1,062
3shape d710, i can scan and design in 10-15 minutes depending on the case(faster with a bite). Some need more love than others.. and taking the time to refine in CAD saves a lot of ZR grinding. Virtual articulation takes seconds, most of the time you dont even need it for singles.
 
LA Ceramics

LA Ceramics

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
293
Reaction score
63
to scan both arches, the die, and articulated model took over twenty minutes. That's crazy. It's smart optics running the scanner (the same technology as my 6 year old Sensable scanner - which is collecting dust in the basement),Exocad, and the least intuitive CAD software I've used. It seems cobbled together. Kind of reminds me of Dental wings or Procera. Not a ringing endorsement.

Are you saying 50 fcz in a day is crazy? Well, I guess I'm crazy. And, I really liked the mill. I would scan and design with 3shape and send to the Ceramill all day. If I believed they would ever come out with a 98mm puck holder, if they would sell the mill by itself, and if I thought they were serious about getting into the U.S. market and wouldn't get bought out again and change market strategies again, I would be on board. That's a lot of if's.

Thanks Joe,...your experiences with the scanner and software have me hunting for that butterfly net again but it sounds like you your pretty sure your right so. I have decided not to argue with a guy who produces 50 fcz's in a typical workday,...you must be rollin' in dough bro. $5000 per day spells about a Mil and a quarter production per year from just you alone ......DDAANNGGITBBOOYY!!! I couldn't touch that ever ever ever and it is almost like it's unreal or something. You da' man,

signed,

Rob the moron who likes AG
 
Joe

Joe

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
270
Reaction score
28
hey, I said I like the mill. And, the system isn't bad. It's just not as good as what I've got going now. I was certainly not impressed enough to switch over.
Also, I'm not a one man lab. I don't do 50 a day by myself. I can easily design 50 units in a day. If I didn't have any distractions, I could design and mill 50 units by myself. I could scan, design, and mill 50 units in a day, if that was a 14 hour day.
 
LA Ceramics

LA Ceramics

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
293
Reaction score
63
50 in 14hours. That's one full contour every 14 minutes. Still pretty unlikely but not impossible if absolutely nothing went wrong,...I guess that's why your sitting up on that log like that,...I might be feelin' a little froggy myself;)
 
Sam-CAP

Sam-CAP

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
568
Reaction score
108
fark_u4dk738O3IDWsk0E-WohpPXR30s.gif
 
eyeloveteeth

eyeloveteeth

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,170
Reaction score
275
50 in 14hours. That's one full contour every 14 minutes. Still pretty unlikely but not impossible if absolutely nothing went wrong,...I guess that's why your sitting up on that log like that,...I might be feelin' a little froggy myself;)

50 in 14 hours honestly is just above average. single units generally take 5-10 minutes. Bridges 10-15. Screw retained singles take about 8-10 minutes. If you have it all dialed in, and the majority of your cases are of normal difficulty, it is not crazy to think you generate 70-80 units a day.

I can design about 5 core files from atlantis every 30 minutes (as long as i don't get interrupted).
 
LA Ceramics

LA Ceramics

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
293
Reaction score
63
I try to complete 30 units of something per day. Thats an 8 hour day by the way mostly I think because I do have a life. I am interrupted on a constant basis and try to multitask my way through as a matter of necessity. I ran a one man show for 20 years so I guess I'm able to do pretty much anything in the lab. It just doesn't make sense to my employer to have me sitting in front of the screen all day like a one trick pony. There was a time in my career when I worked 80 hours a week. Made plenty of money but found out that life was more than just work work work. Look into it. Working 14 hour days is not something I would recommend to anyone I cared about
 
BobCDT

BobCDT

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,870
Reaction score
521
Yes, we are producing Sintron at CAP every day. I really don't see any down side to it. It mills really easily. We use a wax milling stratergy. Tool cost is almost nothing and most PFM porcelain and press too systems work with it.
If you want to try a few your more than welcome to send in some cases.
 
DentalMachineMan

DentalMachineMan

New Member
Full Member
Messages
23
Reaction score
1
Vhf S1/S2 with optional grid module works very fine all materials but metal (Cr/CO). In my opinion the most important thing is the technical support of the dealer. Imes is a good product too, however in my country the support was very poor when I bought my Vhf.
 
L

le-ant

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
101
Reaction score
8
I ended up with the wieland hybrid, but we're about to buy an imes 250I.:)
 
O

ovidiunet

Member
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
DOR-A-MATIC
Look I am going to have to disagree with LA Ceramics. I am not a reseller and I am a daily user of the 450i and it kicks ass!

We have had our 450i for almost a year now and I wouldn't go any other way. We use it daily to mill emax cad and ti abutments. On occasion we still use it to mill zirconia if we have to.

I am a firm believer in having a robust mill. The 450i can do it all, and it can do things people said it would never be able to do ;)

We mill at least 4 Ti abutments a day in it and at least 6 emax cad a day and the the quality is top notch. It is a complete open system and will go a long way for you.

If I was to buy another dental mill it would be another Imes Icore we currently have 5 mills and and 4 of the are Origin mills and one Imes Icore and the Imes Icore blows the Origin mills out of the water.

Do yourself a favor and go with the Imes Icore you will not be disappointed.

Hello ParkwayDental,

Witch scanner do you use for 450i?
We are planning to buy an 350i but I am confused about scanner: Steinbichler vs Imetric 104i vs Imes i3 Dscan.....
Thanks
 

Similar threads

N
Replies
22
Views
730
CoolHandLuke
CoolHandLuke
S
Replies
8
Views
839
SDLAB
S
D
Replies
2
Views
107
PRO ARTS DL
PRO ARTS DL
M
Replies
0
Views
255
MrNeverFixit
M
Top Bottom