Imes Icore 350i Pro+ loader bs Versamill 5x500L/ Arum 5x500L

zero_zero

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what i mean is you don't buy an offline suite like Hyperdent and immediately get this kind of functionality.

you maybe buy Mastercam, or a Hexagon product. not a dental cam.
Dental CAM's are watered down, from what I've seen, businesses buying those high-end machines are mostly using Mastercam, Solidworks or NX
 
Affinity

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Im a one man lab, I have 3 mills, 2 scanners, 3 printers, 0 debt.. The only mill I purchased new and spent (lost) a lot of money on now sits collecting dust, useless. I mean, theres a programill on ebay now for $35k, I have a 450i with 200 hours listed for sale here for 3-4 years, and it sits unused.
My point is, you dont have to spend $150k. The people that have the money will always think theyre getting the best deal driving the new car off the lot, but the same car wouldnt be worth the price you paid if you made a u-turn and brought it right back. Point A->B is my biggest concern. Putting pucks in and pulling out pure profit. You wont be done paying for a new $150k machine before its not even supported anymore.
 
CoolHandLuke

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You wont be done paying for a new $150k machine before its not even supported anymore
debatable, and situational.

leave alone "not supported anymore" is just a sign of bad service.
 
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When a bego rep told me that they didnt sell parts for one of their $30k+ laser welders that was 6 years old, I realized, they dont play the same game we do. Situtation with DOF was less than 3 years before they didnt provide parts for a $50k mill. They dont make money on parts, thats why they come out with a new improved model every couple years, that mills zr the same way.
A loan payment on a $150k mill would be a minimum of 5+ years at $2500/mo. Id rather buy another investment property and make a smaller payment for 30 years, with a profitable return.. all of our mills will be floating in space dumps in 30 years. Check the ebay cerec graveyard and you will see $100k setups that are unsellable now.
 
CoolHandLuke

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with a mill worth 100k, you have to make a product that will return that investment, as you are keenly aware, within a short timeframe

with 150k even more so

this is still why bars and partials are the profit kings of the dental cnc world. some charge 500$ per implant site for a bar (makes an AO5 kinda costly) and some upwards of 800

you do 3 bars and you made profit that month.

same math for crowns, if it can cost you 10$ in material and 15 minutes of time, then it costs 40$ per hour to run the mill to make crowns. as long as that gets you more than 4 crowns at 200$ each, you've come out ahead by a bit but not by much. times ten pucks overnight and now we're talking some real money. at that rate, you can take weekends off. take a few days of down time if something breaks. the profit is made.

does that make sense for a 1 man lab?

you tell me, you're the 1 man lab.

theres plenty of ROI calculators out there, they all need to know your volume of production, because without it you may as well owe a million, it wont get paid off. everything comes down to production.

hell, you can put in a million dollar mill and pay it off on a 3bars per day volume and pay yourself a measly 80k/yr as long as you can maintain consistent sales. key word, consistent.

so situational.
 
Affinity

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Anyone throwin you that many bars is going to want a discount soon enough Deal

Like I said previously, who in this space is competing with panthera? Hard to justify trying to take down the biggest players in the game by throwing money at it... money cant purchase experience. Same as a small lab competing with a GW, you can try adding 10 mills, but you would have to add 100 salespeople and 500 worthwhile techs.. and even then you would be a decade behind their R&D and influence.

Maybe if you deliver crowns by drone you could provide the amazon experience everyone is after.
 
CoolHandLuke

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Anyone throwin you that many bars is going to want a discount soon enough Deal

Like I said previously, who in this space is competing with panthera? Hard to justify trying to take down the biggest players in the game by throwing money at it... money cant purchase experience. Same as a small lab competing with a GW, you can try adding 10 mills, but you would have to add 100 salespeople and 500 worthwhile techs.. and even then you would be a decade behind their R&D and influence.

Maybe if you deliver crowns by drone you could provide the amazon experience everyone is after.
with about 500k i could set you up to compete with panthera tomorrow. their secret sauce is not really a secret.

but you'd be starting about 40 million behind in capital spending, and have no marketing so growth - you won't really get. and you'd need about 10 people to effectively run such an op.

of course, for setting you up for success i'd ask for an upfront 250k, 6 months of time, and 15% for 10 years.
 
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Thanks for the feedback guys. My head hurts more now. Lol. By the way, I spoke with one of the technicians at Proto3000 and he told me that DESS now has angled screw premilled blanks. I couldn’t find them on the website, but I’ll call them to confirm if they actually answer or call me back.
 
Sda36

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Hi guys,
We have been researching and gathering quotes for an Imes 350i pro+ loader and the Arum 5x500L loader. The Imes 350 quote is from Nowak and is 89,950 with icam v5 and over 8 holders included. The Axys quote and Doowon quote for the Arum 5x500L is 111,000 Axys and 99,000 Doowon running Hyperdent. I would really appreciate any advice and experience you guys can share. I’ve never used these mills or their CAM. I’ve only used Inlab, Ceramill, and VHF. I would like to know how reliable the mills are. How is the tech support from these suppliers and the manufacturers? Is the added expense of Hyperdent worth it versus I am? We have a MC X5 and we’ll be using the new mill for metal, Emax, and milling zirconia overnight. Also, Axys says it’s best to mill everything, even zirconia wet. Any experience on wet milling zirconia is also appreciated. Thanks everyone.
Can only say that in so many years here on DLN I have never heard a Negative comment on the Axys line of mills period. Can't say the same for Imes. Have also researched both and for me no contest. I was at Lab Day Chicago 2019 and Axys had there mills on display And Running. Was watching their smaller unit 300X Dry,(??) milling away, so I touched the cabinet and could feel a thing, Zero. Much like a high quality handpiece delivers, total concentricity and you're not sure it's operating 🙂
I also realize their tools are a larger shank which provides a much more robust mill Without deflection. I also think their spindle is the most powerful out there.
 
Sda36

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Can only say that in so many years here on DLN I have never heard a Negative comment on the Axys line of mills period. Can't say the same for Imes. Have also researched both and for me no contest. I was at Lab Day Chicago 2019 and Axys had there mills on display And Running. Was watching their smaller unit 300X Dry,(??) milling away, so I touched the cabinet and could feel a thing, Zero. Much like a high quality handpiece delivers, total concentricity and you're not sure it's operating 🙂
I also realize their tools are a larger shank which provides a much more robust mill Without deflection. I also think their spindle is the most powerful out there.
I've also heard loaders are like buying a boat, you get the drift 😉
 
sidesh0wb0b

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I've also heard loaders are like buying a boat, you get the drift 😉
boy i hope not. i badly want a loader on my next mill purchase. spending way too much time swapping pucks constantly
 
Toothman19

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boy i hope not. i badly want a loader on my next mill purchase. spending way too much time swapping pucks constantly
Try to find a used Wieland select with a changer. Just like anything else as long as you maintain it, it will last a long time. You can probably find one under 30k
 

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