Imes Icore 350i Pro+ loader bs Versamill 5x500L/ Arum 5x500L

[genesis1]

Hi guys,
We have been researching and gathering quotes for an Imes 350i pro+ loader and the Arum 5x500L loader. The Imes 350 quote is from Nowak and is 89,950 with icam v5 and over 8 holders included. The Axys quote and Doowon quote for the Arum 5x500L is 111,000 Axys and 99,000 Doowon running Hyperdent. I would really appreciate any advice and experience you guys can share. I’ve never used these mills or their CAM. I’ve only used Inlab, Ceramill, and VHF. I would like to know how reliable the mills are. How is the tech support from these suppliers and the manufacturers? Is the added expense of Hyperdent worth it versus I am? We have a MC X5 and we’ll be using the new mill for metal, Emax, and milling zirconia overnight. Also, Axys says it’s best to mill everything, even zirconia wet. Any experience on wet milling zirconia is also appreciated. Thanks everyone.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

no idea about nowak, but if you buy direct from doowon you can't get support in the usa thats what a reseller is for.

 

[Affinity]

If you want an opinion, thats all this is. Milling zirconia, metal and emax in the same mill is a bad idea. Just because it can do it, and it has a loader, doesnt mean there isnt a whole lot of cleanup in-between. Running zirconia sludge (theres nothing like zr dust mixed with oil) through your $100k mill is your choice, but I can tell you its a complete mess. Cleaning up Titanium chips out of the mill so you can do other things is also a pain.
I run a 450i with hyperdent for Ti, no zirconia will ever go in there, for that I have a VHF s2 and that will run all night for zirconia/wax, (even emax and metal, but why?)

In running mills for 10 years now, Ive learned that the reseller or mfg will tell you whatever you want to hear (LIE),but the practicality of what you want to do, you will have to find out for yourself. Your best bet would be to get 2 mills, get out your wallet for hyperdent, and pay for the multi machine license, then you can run 1 cam for 2 machines. Stay away from asian mills unless you like gettin up at 3am for service calls. If they dont have a gigantic footprint in the US, its a crapshoot as to whether you will get back up in running in a day or a week.

 

[genesis1]

no idea about nowak, but if you buy direct from doowon you can't get support in the usa thats what a reseller is for.

Thanks for the heads up. They have an office in PA and are willing to come to our office and meet. I will definitely ask about domestic support. Thanks

 

[genesis1]

If you want an opinion, thats all this is. Milling zirconia, metal and emax in the same mill is a bad idea. Just because it can do it, and it has a loader, doesnt mean there isnt a whole lot of cleanup in-between. Running zirconia sludge (theres nothing like zr dust mixed with oil) through your $100k mill is your choice, but I can tell you its a complete mess. Cleaning up Titanium chips out of the mill so you can do other things is also a pain.
I run a 450i with hyperdent for Ti, no zirconia will ever go in there, for that I have a VHF s2 and that will run all night for zirconia/wax, (even emax and metal, but why?)

In running mills for 10 years now, Ive learned that the reseller or mfg will tell you whatever you want to hear (LIE),but the practicality of what you want to do, you will have to find out for yourself. Your best bet would be to get 2 mills, get out your wallet for hyperdent, and pay for the multi machine license, then you can run 1 cam for 2 machines. Stay away from asian mills unless you like gettin up at 3am for service calls. If they dont have a gigantic footprint in the US, its a crapshoot as to whether you will get back up in running in a day or a week.

Thanks. We have a MC X5 that we dry mill. We just really want a loader. It sucks to stay and wait on a couple crowns. We may think of getting the 250i and a nice robust single puck mill for metal. Your correct, Hyperdent is really expensive. I don’t think we really need a CAM as detailed as Hyperdent yet. Thanks

 

[tehnik]

Millbox (no need for extra machine license or whatever, works with all coritec machines) + coritec 250i pro loader + coritec 350i pro (plus).

 

[genesis1]

Millbox (no need for extra machine license or whatever, works with all coritec machines) + coritec 250i pro loader + coritec 350i pro (plus).

That sounds great except the $150k worth of equipment. I’m a small lab like most and can’t justify that large of a purchase.

 

[mmbh]

Why don't you have someone else mill your metal. Get something to mill your zirconia and pmma, and use your mcx5 just to mill emax. That way your only having to buy one lower cost mill and you can still utilize your current mill.

 

[genesis1]

If you want an opinion, thats all this is. Milling zirconia, metal and emax in the same mill is a bad idea. Just because it can do it, and it has a loader, doesnt mean there isnt a whole lot of cleanup in-between. Running zirconia sludge (theres nothing like zr dust mixed with oil) through your $100k mill is your choice, but I can tell you its a complete mess. Cleaning up Titanium chips out of the mill so you can do other things is also a pain.
I run a 450i with hyperdent for Ti, no zirconia will ever go in there, for that I have a VHF s2 and that will run all night for zirconia/wax, (even emax and metal, but why?)

In running mills for 10 years now, Ive learned that the reseller or mfg will tell you whatever you want to hear (LIE),but the practicality of what you want to do, you will have to find out for yourself. Your best bet would be to get 2 mills, get out your wallet for hyperdent, and pay for the multi machine license, then you can run 1 cam for 2 machines. Stay away from asian mills unless you like gettin up at 3am for service calls. If they dont have a gigantic footprint in the US, its a crapshoot as to whether you will get back up in running in a day or a week.

Quick question. This may sound completely dumb, but I have never received a definitive answer from anyone I’ve asked. Can you mill an abutment from a disc. Including the interface. In other words, can you mill an abutment or bar that connects directly to the implant? Is this a bad idea unless you have a real industrial mill like a Roden. Thanks

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Quick question. This may sound completely dumb, but I have never received a definitive answer from anyone I’ve asked. Can you mill an abutment from a disc. Including the interface. In other words, can you mill an abutment or bar that connects directly to the implant? Is this a bad idea unless you have a real industrial mill like a Roden. Thanks

as long as you are not located in the USA, yes.

if you are in the USA, no. this is an FDA regulated thing and will require you to get 510k premarket clearance to show your abutment is substantially similar to others out there.

 

[genesis1]

Thanks for the clarification. So can a lab based mill; mill an angled screw channel custom abutment from a premilled blank? If so, how much of a degree?

 

[zero_zero]

Thanks for the clarification. So can a lab based mill; mill an angled screw channel custom abutment from a premilled blank? If so, how much of a degree?

Pre-milled blanks come with a straight screw channel AFAIK

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Pre-milled blanks come with a straight screw channel AFAIK

yes, only straight

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Thanks for the clarification. So can a lab based mill; mill an angled screw channel custom abutment from a premilled blank? If so, how much of a degree?

for that, you will require one of these:

408B

Tout ce qu’il faut, ni plus, ni moins. Pièce stratégique pour l’horlogerie, la 408B fait tout sauf le tournage. Idéale pour les maillons de bracelets, par exemple, son profil simple et efficace lui attire également l’affection du secteur dentaire.

willemin-macodel.com

its worth more than most labs

 

[Car 54]

for that, you will require one of these:

408B

Tout ce qu’il faut, ni plus, ni moins. Pièce stratégique pour l’horlogerie, la 408B fait tout sauf le tournage. Idéale pour les maillons de bracelets, par exemple, son profil simple et efficace lui attire également l’affection du secteur dentaire.

willemin-macodel.com

its worth more than most labs

Clicking on Applications at the top of the webpage and watching some of the videos, it is pretty impressive.

 

[Affinity]

Ive only seen straight channel preforms but Im gonna go out on a limb and say angled channel blanks will be available in the near future. You would have to be a very large lab doing 1000s of custom abutments to justify wanting to mill the interface, and even then you wouldnt be able to compete with a panthera.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Clicking on Applications at the top of the webpage and watching some of the videos, it is pretty impressive.

even more considering there is no CAM software that can create this, it is all programmed at the mill computer by hand. debugged for efficiency or quality by an engineer.

 

[zero_zero]

there is no CAM software that can create this

Check out the industry leaders, you'll be surprised

 

[CoolHandLuke]

what i mean is you don't buy an offline suite like Hyperdent and immediately get this kind of functionality.

you maybe buy Mastercam, or a Hexagon product. not a dental cam.

 

[tehnik]

"We may think of getting the 250i and a nice robust single puck mill for metal."

That sounds great except the $150k worth of equipment. I’m a small lab like most and can’t justify that large of a purchase.

???

I don't imagine how is it possible to mill zirconia in the same wet machine, that is used for milling Titanium. Ti needs emulsion for milling and it is contaminating the zirconia.