Complete Dentures on Hinge Articulators

Lanny

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What do you think your actual success rate is when you you fabricate dentures using hinge articulators? 50% at best? why waste your time with a beautiful wax up and custom staining etc. when the odds are that its no better that a basic denture? Just curious. Are people just feeding their egos?

Thanks
 
evanosu

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What do you mean "success"? Number of remakes? Number of resets?

I can say that our remake rate is less than 1% and the majority of our cases are done on silver/chrome hinged articulators. We do all of our premium cases on pinned articulators and honestly we don't see any difference in success based on what I mentioned above.
 
JMN

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What do you think your actual success rate is when you you fabricate dentures using hinge articulators? 50% at best? why waste your time with a beautiful wax up and custom staining etc. when the odds are that its no better that a basic denture? Just curious. Are people just feeding their egos?

Thanks
50%? Yeah, dentures are so profitable we can remake 1/2 of them and still have paychecks.

There are some assumptions being missed here making a high barrier to understanding. Please, try asking your question while letting us know what you thinking about instead of just what you think about what you are thinking about.
 
Affinity

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Lets see one of the beautiful dentures youve created CHL. Id rather bang rocks than throw them.
 
CoolHandLuke

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when i make one i'll show you.

you don't read a lot of Douglas Adams ?
 
Lanny

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I guess I'm more or less looking for your thoughts on this subject. It's my opinion that the success of the denture is dependent upon the bite that the Dentist provides or am I wrong? I mean I can put sugar on a turd, but in the end it's still a turd.
 
Affinity

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I understand satire, but I dont understand insinuating someone is a neanderthal on a subject you know little about. The "digital.. 'cuz" argument just doesnt apply to everything. Maybe I missed your point..

I use a panadent setup with a facebow for most all of my FUD/FLD. I think the teeth determine the occlusion in most cases. I use candulor teeth with steep cusp/fossa occlusion so I think a semi adjustable is appropriate when using $100 teeth like that, zero degree teeth I guess are fine on a clacker.
 
Lanny

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What do you mean "success"? Number of remakes? Number of resets?

I can say that our remake rate is less than 1% and the majority of our cases are done on silver/chrome hinged articulators. We do all of our premium cases on pinned articulators and honestly we don't see any difference in success based on what I mentioned above.


Thanks for the information.
 
Affinity

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Are you a lab tech at Creighton Lanny? I have an acct that graduated from there a couple years ago.
 
CoolHandLuke

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I understand satire, but I dont understand insinuating someone is a neanderthal on a subject you know little about. The "digital.. 'cuz" argument just doesnt apply to everything. Maybe I missed your point..

I use a panadent setup with a facebow for most all of my FUD/FLD. I think the teeth determine the occlusion in most cases. I use candulor teeth with steep cusp/fossa occlusion so I think a semi adjustable is appropriate when using $100 teeth like that, zero degree teeth I guess are fine on a clacker.

at the end of the day the facebow is one of those sources of error, as is the impression, and bite. they were taken maybe with the most advanced methods by hand, but they are not methods that account for the patient's rest state, nor actual degree of movement.

this is where digital will eventually bring denturism from "flatten all the teeth because we cant have it any other way" to "give me natural anatomy"

because with digital tools will be the ability to scan the TMJ and digitally calculate with precision the full range of movement. scan via CBCT and IOS and merge the data for the best rest position.

then you will have a point from which to start that is orderS of magnitude more precise and advanced than poorly taken impressions with shoddy bites mounted on a glorified door hinge. or any sort of facebow and pinned articulator.

do you understand how "I think the teeth determine the occlusion in most cases" sounds so much like Abe describing the the word Thousand ?

in his book The Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy there is a quote: We'll be saying a big hello to all intelligent lifeforms everywhere and to everyone else out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together, guys.

it just means theres opportunity for growth and catch up with the more advanced, and it just needs a little coaxing to get off the ground.
 
kcdt

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What do you think your actual success rate is when you you fabricate dentures using hinge articulators? 50% at best? why waste your time with a beautiful wax up and custom staining etc. when the odds are that its no better that a basic denture? Just curious. Are people just feeding their egos?

Thanks
It is a bit of lipstick on the pig.
Maybe some ego.
We all have some somewhere.

These days I chalk it up to homemade marketing.
Which can often raise such conundrums.
After all, anyone who thinks that pig is smoochable probably didn't care if had lipstick.
Anyone who would not care to court a pig also don't care.
So your market's pretty narrow right there.
 
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O

Old School Dentures

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What do you mean "success"? Number of remakes? Number of resets?

I can say that our remake rate is less than 1% and the majority of our cases are done on silver/chrome hinged articulators. We do all of our premium cases on pinned articulators and honestly we don't see any difference in success based on what I mentioned above.

Completely agree, I make 99.9% of my dentures on hinged chrome articulators. I don’t have remakes , and resets depend on the doctor taking the bite but generally one tryin is all that is needed for 70% of my doctors and even then the resets aren’t because of bite issues but patient issues. And by patient issues I mean they picked the wrong shade or want either more/less vigorous or ideal setup. The only thing Pinned articulators do for me is slow me down. What some techs/doctors do with facebow and similar articulators I can do with pictures of the patient sent by text or email... and a $7 articulator.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
kcdt

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Completely agree, I make 99.9% of my dentures on hinged chrome articulators. I don’t have remakes , and resets depend on the doctor taking the bite but generally one tryin is all that is needed for 70% of my doctors and even then the resets aren’t because of bite issues but patient issues. And by patient issues I mean they picked the wrong shade or want either more/less vigorous or ideal setup. The only thing Pinned articulators do for me is slow me down. What some techs/doctors do with facebow and similar articulators I can do with pictures of the patient sent by text or email... and a $7 articulator.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Meh.
Working on an instrument that can squeeze out of VDO when you handle it is an issue. If that works for you, terrific.

Even a $12 foster has an anterior pin.
It's not an elitist conspiracy.
 
I

Inna-Hurry

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What do you think your actual success rate is when you you fabricate dentures using hinge articulators? 50% at best? why waste your time with a beautiful wax up and custom staining etc. when the odds are that its no better that a basic denture? Just curious. Are people just feeding their egos?

Thanks
All that festooning and hifalootin' custom staining is real nice when you hold the dentures in your hands.... A great majority of patients will never show all that time invested. They are great show pieces to the people "in the know"..... but most patients don't even know how many teeth they have.
 
I

Inna-Hurry

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I guess I'm more or less looking for your thoughts on this subject. It's my opinion that the success of the denture is dependent upon the bite that the Dentist provides or am I wrong? I mean I can put sugar on a turd, but in the end it's still a turd.

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER.
And most larger labs start the beginners out on the plaster bench..... If the master tech sets the bite and the plaster jockey "modifies" it during the mounting process.... it does not come out until the first failed try in.. lol.
 
I

Inna-Hurry

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I understand satire, but I dont understand insinuating someone is a neanderthal on a subject you know little about. The "digital.. 'cuz" argument just doesnt apply to everything. Maybe I missed your point..

I use a panadent setup with a facebow for most all of my FUD/FLD. I think the teeth determine the occlusion in most cases. I use candulor teeth with steep cusp/fossa occlusion so I think a semi adjustable is appropriate when using $100 teeth like that, zero degree teeth I guess are fine on a clacker.


Confirming your statement "I think the teeth determine the occlusion in most cases."
The teeth????? Or did you mean the patients' condylar movements.....as exercised by the Dr. and conveyed on the prescription in tooth selection.... or as a last result... the lower ridge height....

I can buy a $10 1x16 of 33deg teeth..... What does tooth cost have to do with anything?

This is really opening up an interesting topic.....
 
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I

Inna-Hurry

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Meh.
Working on an instrument that can squeeze out of VDO when you handle it is an issue. If that works for you, terrific.

Even a $12 foster has an anterior pin.
It's not an elitist conspiracy.

Please think about our toaster or bbq grill... You are familiar with how to use it and what input equals what result. I like 'em, use em' on most cases and keep the dog and pony show for the hifalootin' folks.
That's all I'm sayin' about hinges.
 
I

Inna-Hurry

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Completely agree, I make 99.9% of my dentures on hinged chrome articulators. I don’t have remakes , and resets depend on the doctor taking the bite but generally one tryin is all that is needed for 70% of my doctors and even then the resets aren’t because of bite issues but patient issues. And by patient issues I mean they picked the wrong shade or want either more/less vigorous or ideal setup. The only thing Pinned articulators do for me is slow me down. What some techs/doctors do with facebow and similar articulators I can do with pictures of the patient sent by text or email... and a $7 articulator.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Same here.... If the Dr. does not listen to the patient or get an accurate midline-- we're "set up" to fail.... HA!
 

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