AG Motion 2 For Dentures

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CanadaDenturist

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Even though you're from Canada I'll toss in a few thoughts. šŸ˜ƒ
I'll add that I am not an acrylic/removable tech by any competent means so make sure you have a grain of salt handy.
If you want to use carded pre-manufactured teeth, AG was probably the first. I have seen some dentures made this way and they are as good or better than 'average' analog dentures.
The limit to this are the teeth available for this process. I'm sure there are more now, but several years ago there was only 2-3 companies. Typical pre-manufactured tooth molds are not consistent enough for a predictable digital work flow so you will want to use teeth made specifically for the digital process.
With generic exocad it is possible to make a single arch denture opposing a natural arch or other starting with Plovdiv CADApp version. This does not provide a 'turn key' solution for milling pre-manufactured teeth occlusal and basal sides using a holder similar to AG. That's not to say it couldn't be made to happen if you were the tinkering DIY type. If it is a patent protected process it may be coming to and end soon unless it were worth renewing/enforcing the protection. If it is an agreement between exocad and AG then who knows?? Right now there are a lot of prosthetic tooth libraries available in generic exocad. Several different branded manufacturers are represented. Some of these libraries are locked and by that I mean the teeth aren't scalable in size and the morphology can't readily be changed by moving a cusp tip or changing a buccal contour. Some or all of these libraries have cards available by the manufacturer. They could be put into a milled wax base and processed or possibly milled similar to the ones available in the AG version if a card stock holder was made or is available for the CAM software.
Many of the other libraries are unlocked and can be scaled, free formed, etc and milled like any other stl design file, occlusal and basal surfaces from your choice of materials.
My experience with milling dentures as temps for implant and other cases is pretty good for the most part. I don't use carded teeth and just mill the teeth from shaded multi layer PMMA and the base gingival shaded disks. For temporary solutions to what I'm solving and not having to get involved with a full blown acrylic lab set up. Not to mention my lack of practical experience with analog acrylic methods, it's been pretty solid.
Being able to print monolithic denture setups as prototype trials, scan appliances, custom trays, etc from the CAD designs and then mill amended two part designs is a huge plus.
My thoughts are AG will not have this process of milling carded teeth exclusively in perpetude, but they have been doing it longer, so the technical support and process should be pretty solid regarding that technique. I can't speak of their overall support since I've never dealt with them personally. I do have experience with proprietary and closed systems and will say that you will do it their way or you won't do it with that system. So keep that in mind! As you learn the process and start to think of solutions with digital tools, you may find a closed 'turn key' system to be very limiting in how you want to do it.
Branded versions of exocad have pluses and minuses, (read limitations) some more than others, not necessarily negative depending on your needs or how far you look down rabbit holes.
Be sure to ask every question you can think of regarding software design limitations or CAM process limitations from whichever company you decide to purchase from. Double check what they say as best as you can. Double check that the teeth you want to use are manufactured to specs compatible with the digital process.
Printed dentures are not there yet unless you're setting up a denture vending booth. Materials are lacking and not easily repairable.
Hopefully you find some useful info among all this yammering.
Thanks for the long and thoughtful reply, many good points! I also don't think AG will have exclusivity with milling certain carded teeth in perpetuity. I know that there are available tooth molds that can be milled with a PMMA but in comparison to a high quality carded tooth they still don't esthetically hold up and I would be going backwards from what I'm currently offering my patients. Maybe I need to put some thought into if the general public really wants the best looking denture teeth they can have or are happy with just having teeth? Going the later route would make digital seem much more appealing.
 
bigj1972

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Thanks for the long and thoughtful reply, many good points! I also don't think AG will have exclusivity with milling certain carded teeth in perpetuity. I know that there are available tooth molds that can be milled with a PMMA but in comparison to a high quality carded tooth they still don't esthetically hold up and I would be going backwards from what I'm currently offering my patients. Maybe I need to put some thought into if the general public really wants the best looking denture teeth they can have or are happy with just having teeth? Going the later route would make digital seem much more appealing.
Think of it like a car. If you spend the money to buy a new one, you're not going to get the one with the dents or hazy paint.

You want a discount, and so will the clients who have to sell that lesser product. Now factor that into your ROI.
 
TheLabGuy

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My issue is that I've never seen a good looking 3D printed denture. Even the reps I talk to say they look like $#!+ in comparison to a denture made of carded teeth. I'd be taking a huge step backwards in the quality I'm offering my patients if I were to start to solely 3D print my dentures. I think 3D printing would be a great option for transitional dentures though.
That was my issue...printed is shlt, the Docs/Denturists saying it's great for a immediate or a temp are full of shlt as well...it's pmma, it's junk.

Now milled dentures are a whole different animal. I use ivoclars ivotion system. We use the monolithic disks and have been having great results plus, it's acrylic!!! Love having the digital docs being able to scan there old denture and copy or improve on it. Great for everything dentures and you have a digital record for the patient, so many benefits. They are nice when done right, docs really love the fits, incredible fits. Only two things I don't like are more personal preference, it's a 3shape program...can't stand their software, wish exocad would get with ivotion. Also, can't use a monolithic puck if you really have limited inter-occlusal space...however, you could always mill teeth and pink/base separate and lute with some palabond but I'm lazy, I like the monolithic. I really need to take some pictures and show you all some of these for all the doubters...I swear I'll get around to it.
 
mammasan

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Just saw that AG has Ivotion approved in new update for ceramill 4.1.
 

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