Complete Dentures on Hinge Articulators

[droberts]

I would add bite to that. I've seen plenty of nice master casts with meaningless bite registrations.

Agree. 95% of the time I have none or maybe one reset with my cases. Its the information you need, and communicating with them as well.

 

[droberts]

I would add bite to that. I've seen plenty of nice master casts with meaningless bite registrations.

Agree. 95% of the time I have none or maybe one reset with my cases. Its the information you need, and communicating with them as well.

 

[Doris A]

We use Panadent, Denar Combi, or Denar Mark 300 series articulators for 90% of our full denture set ups, the other 10% go on a Foster pinned hinge articulator because the Dr doesn't have one of the others in their office and those articulators don't leave the lab. We don't see any more resets from the hinged than with the semi adjustable. and most of those are from the bite being missed.

 

[denturist-student]

Well to me its a comfort thing. If an articulator is supposed to mimic the tmj movements so we can set up cusp angles, then best to use something like a Hanau H2 which is at least similar anatomically to the human skull and represents the tmj more accurately than a hinge.....I think nowadays with the acrylic teeth a lot of grinding is done in the dental office and milling in is also done there in vivo....However back in the day when porcelain teeth were favorable I think it was almost a given that Hanau's Quint would be recognized. Also with the advent of low cusp angles on the lower versus lingualized occlusions on the upper this has made things a lot easier to setup and place in the mouth successfully....I use the Vitapan synoforms for all insurance casworkes where facebows and equilibrations are carried out in the mouth...To me centric is thn not as important because of the low 5 degree cusp angle of the synoforms....before I was even using bioform zero degrees with a 33 degree upper tooth set up in lingualized occlusion however I always incorporated a 20 degree compensating curve and I still do with insurance and flat ridge caseworks....So maybe the disapearance of the porcelain teeth caused us to be more forgiving with cusp angulations....anyones guess.

 

[Inna-Hurry]

Yes we can figure out how to make a flawed or inadequate tool perform.
But how much more attention to detail and just productions numbers could be improved if you didn't have to devote so much to making the flawed work?

Just because it does not work for you does not mean it does not work.

I spend more time over analyzing, agonizing and resetting the midline placement playing peek-a-boo looking around the pin then setting the upper arch and nailing the midline placement with the first tooth.
(I just incorporate a hand made stop and toss the pin...)
Lotsa good techniques to set a denture.
None is "flawed or inadequate" just takes a different technique.
Balancing porcelain teeth works best with an adj. art.
In my situation time is money. Chop-chop.

 

[JMN]

Just because it does not work for you does not mean it does not work.

I spend more time over analyzing, agonizing and resetting the midline placement playing peek-a-boo looking around the pin then setting the upper arch and nailing the midline placement with the first tooth.
(I just incorporate a hand made stop and toss the pin...)
Lotsa good techniques to set a denture.
None is "flawed or inadequate" just takes a different technique.
Balancing porcelain teeth works best with an adj. art.
In my situation time is money. Chop-chop.

Dude, decaf.
Nobody is maligning anyone. Just discussing the equipment drawbacks inherent in anything aside from a having the patient in the lab to set the teeth.
Eeeww.

 

[Flipperlady]

Well to me its a comfort thing. If an articulator is supposed to mimic the tmj movements so we can set up cusp angles, then best to use something like a Hanau H2 which is at least similar anatomically to the human skull and represents the tmj more accurately than a hinge.....I think nowadays with the acrylic teeth a lot of grinding is done in the dental office and milling in is also done there in vivo....However back in the day when porcelain teeth were favorable I think it was almost a given that Hanau's Quint would be recognized. Also with the advent of low cusp angles on the lower versus lingualized occlusions on the upper this has made things a lot easier to setup and place in the mouth successfully....I use the Vitapan synoforms for all insurance casworkes where facebows and equilibrations are carried out in the mouth...To me centric is thn not as important because of the low 5 degree cusp angle of the synoforms....before I was even using bioform zero degrees with a 33 degree upper tooth set up in lingualized occlusion however I always incorporated a 20 degree compensating curve and I still do with insurance and flat ridge caseworks....So maybe the disapearance of the porcelain teeth caused us to be more forgiving with cusp angulations....anyones guess.

My thinking exactly, good post.

 

[Affinity]

To the OPs point: If you are helping teach the next generation of Creighton grads how to do dentures, the articulator doesnt matter as much as the technique or the lab they use. How accurate do THEY want to be? If they take a facebow etc and send it to a lab that ignores that and puts it on a chrome articulator because their in a hurry.. spewing out dentures.. .High end dentures cost more for a reason.
It all starts with the Dr and his concept of quality and precision.. slop in, slop out.

 

[XxJamesAxX]

It all starts with the Dr and his concept of quality and precision.. slop in, slop out.

Agreed, we as technicians can’t want the results more then the doctor wants them. That’s why I asked earlier what the OPs idea of success was. To many people success looks very different. That saying is equal for both physician and technician.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kcdt]

Just because it does not work for you does not mean it does not work.

I spend more time over analyzing, agonizing and resetting the midline placement playing peek-a-boo looking around the pin then setting the upper arch and nailing the midline placement with the first tooth.
(I just incorporate a hand made stop and toss the pin...)
Lotsa good techniques to set a denture.
None is "flawed or inadequate" just takes a different technique.
Balancing porcelain teeth works best with an adj. art.
In my situation time is money. Chop-chop.

Wow that got your undies in a twist.
Nobody's making a personal judgement about you as a person, so cool your jets, sunshine.

 

[Inna-Hurry]

I stopped wearing undies years ago...... no malice or disrespect intended- I love ya babe... Only wanted to make my point clear.
To the op....Just because somebody doesn't do it "your way" doesn't mean it is "flawed or inadequate".

 

[kcdt]

I stopped wearing undies years ago...... no malice or disrespect intended- I love ya babe... Only wanted to make my point clear.
To the op....Just because somebody doesn't do it "your way" doesn't mean it is "flawed or inadequate".

I hope you understand that I know there's a lot of ways to skin the cat.
Every approach has good and bad.
For me an articulator with no anterior pin is just too easy to squeeze past the centric stop in back mid set up.
FWIW, I feel the same way about a Hanau wideview with flip lever condylar release.
You're constantly forced to be hyper vigilant about centric drift.
Thus this is flawed and inadequate to ensure ease of production.
I'm not saying anyone's a hack for using them.
I'm still forced to on occasion.

 

[kcdt]

Well to me its a comfort thing. If an articulator is supposed to mimic the tmj movements so we can set up cusp angles, then best to use something like a Hanau H2 which is at least similar anatomically to the human skull and represents the tmj more accurately than a hinge.....I think nowadays with the acrylic teeth a lot of grinding is done in the dental office and milling in is also done there in vivo....However back in the day when porcelain teeth were favorable I think it was almost a given that Hanau's Quint would be recognized. Also with the advent of low cusp angles on the lower versus lingualized occlusions on the upper this has made things a lot easier to setup and place in the mouth successfully....I use the Vitapan synoforms for all insurance casworkes where facebows and equilibrations are carried out in the mouth...To me centric is thn not as important because of the low 5 degree cusp angle of the synoforms....before I was even using bioform zero degrees with a 33 degree upper tooth set up in lingualized occlusion however I always incorporated a 20 degree compensating curve and I still do with insurance and flat ridge caseworks....So maybe the disapearance of the porcelain teeth caused us to be more forgiving with cusp angulations....anyones guess.

Part of it is related to QOL meta surveys.
Simplified methods executed well have satisfaction rates consistent with more involved setup/tooth forms.
I know I'm way oversimplifying

 

[denturist-student]

Part of it is related to QOL meta surveys.
Simplified methods executed well have satisfaction rates consistent with more involved setup/tooth forms.
I know I'm way oversimplifying

its rather moot if soon there will be no articulators...... just algorithms.....

 

[Lanny]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this subject. I appreciate the in depth discussions that can be had on seemingly simple topics. Again thank you!

Lanny

 

[kcdt]

its rather moot if soon there will be no articulators...... just algorithms.....

It's going to be interesting.
We get cad/cam waxups from a cb lab and process them into clear or radiopaque stents.
At the emergence profile things aren't always foolproof enough to orient against even that limited amount of soft tissue.
**** like that no longer gets QC'd on its way out the door to us, and trying to
explain the need to lock in position is kind of relevant in the analog.
I worry this has a way to go and the ones flooding into the vacuum may not realize why and once the ones who do are gone how long will that take?
What's that period going to look like.

Don't get me wrong. We need this. The labor is vanishing in age.
There will be no other option, really, on the broad market.

I just worry. I think it could be a wild ride.

 

[kcdt]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this subject. I appreciate the in depth discussions that can be had on seemingly simple topics. Again thank you!

Lanny

Yeah well, I had to seek help.
I found a support group:
Onanonanon

 

[lcmlabforum]

This discussion is a good reason why this forum is so great.
to everyone who contributed.
LCM

 

[JMN]

Also called the Swiss denture concept. Ivoclar must have thought it was special enough to ‘acquire’ candulor.. I’ve got a great pdf that explains it maybe I can post it.

That would be really appreciated if you can find it.

 

[JMN]

Yeah well, I had to seek help.
I found a support group:
Onanonanon

Any east coast chapters?