Sirona MCXL machine mill models

[dentprof]

Absolutely, It's the best boat anchor I ever used
Total waist of $$$$$$$$$$$$

BobCDT I am sorry to hear that. But what has been an anchor for you has been like adding another sail to our ship. It has taken us further than I could have imagined.

 

[tonester]

Dentprof, as you've seen there are mixed reviews on sirona mcxl. From what I gather, the unhappiest are the red cam users and labs that production was just too high for a machine that isn't built for milling center amounts of production. The smaller labs with the blue scanner seem to like it. Techs are definately devided on pressing vs. milling emax.

You're an advocate and the system works great for you and your amount of production. In all honesty what does it do great,good, just ok, and not very good? Basically the machines good and bad.

One bad I've heard from many is Sirona Company themselves. Owners say Patterson is fine but Sirona can be a problem. Some users rate their customer satisfaction skills poor. Obviously their positive is the've been doing cad cam for 25 years.

Please comment on all. Thank you.

 

[dentprof]

Tonestar- Sirona just like many companies went through a period that the service to the labs was not quite it should have been. But like any good company they learn from their past and work to improve on it. I have also heard the same types of comments on Pattersons service. All I can really say is that the experience that I have had with both companies has been A+.

As for what the machine does great? I would have to probably say zirconium is probably the best fitting material available at this time.

What is great about the system? Probably the versatility. There are so many materials that we can use and offer to our accounts.

What is the system very good at? I would say the full contour ceramics, such as Emax, Empress, RealLife etc. We get very good fits with these and they have been great for growing our business.

Whats the system OK at? I would say probably temporary bridges. We are doing alot of these. However they require a little contouring and finishing to complete. Also the castable plastics don't quite mill as well as I'd like. They require a little fitting and finishing. I really like the results we get from the printed wax patterns.

The weak part of the system is the design of multiple units. At this time its not easy to do. Sirona did preview version 4.0 of their software at the IDS. It will allow for manipulations and design of multiple units. I'm really looking forward to that. Hopefully it will be in our hands by late summer.

I am an advocate for Sirona and I work hard to promote their systems. I do this because it has worked for me and my lab and I know it can work well for others. Is it the perfect system for everybody? No, its not. But it can work for many of the labs out there trying to compete today. I hope I answered what you wanted to know.

 

[Randy Hill PhD]

I gladly gave mine back. With all new sintering furnace, unlimited dongle, scan after scan...... Zirconia fit like socks on a rooster. Looooose

 

[Mark Jackson]

What is great about the system? Probably the versatility. There are so many materials that we can use and offer to our accounts.

I am an advocate for Sirona and I work hard to promote their systems. I do this because it has worked for me and my lab and I know it can work well for others. Is it the perfect system for everybody? No, its not. But it can work for many of the labs out there trying to compete today. I hope I answered what you wanted to know.

Are you a PAID advocate? Do you do lectures and presentations on their behalf?

As for vesatility, I would argue that there is a MUCH MUCH MUCH wider selection of materials in standard 98 and 100mm pucks, from hundreds of sources and at prices from suspiciously low to astronomically high (Sirona ranges).

 

[harmonylab]

Tonestar- Sirona just like many companies went through a period that the service to the labs was not quite it should have been. But like any good company they learn from their past and work to improve on it. I have also heard the same types of comments on Pattersons service. All I can really say is that the experience that I have had with both companies has been A+.

The Patterson tech I work with is great. But sirona doesn't even call back half the time, and even when they do, I'm often talking to someone who knows less than I do.

As for what the machine does great? I would have to probably say zirconium is probably the best fitting material available at this time.

did you even use the machine? zirconia does not fit that well, they all need fair bit of adjusting to fit. empress/emax fit better, as zirconia is milled in endo mode and will undermill any parts of the margin which the burr can't fit into, which is quite a bit in real life preps.

What is great about the system? Probably the versatility. There are so many materials that we can use and offer to our accounts.

I agree... temp blocks, wax, emax, empress, zirconia etc... has a good variety

The weak part of the system is the design of multiple units. At this time its not easy to do. Sirona did preview version 4.0 of their software at the IDS. It will allow for manipulations and design of multiple units. I'm really looking forward to that. Hopefully it will be in our hands by late summer.

the whole software is quite poor.

 

[YMS96]

the've been doing cad cam for 25 years.

But like any good company they learn from their past and work to improve on it.

You'd think after 25 years in the dental cad/cam industry that they would be killing the game...I guess they haven't learned that much?

 

[RileyS]

At a recent inlab meeting given by patterson, the sirona territory manager admitted that sirona has always placed the dentists on the high pedestal and the labs down in the pig troughs (my play on his words, you can sense how I feel though right?). I think that with dropping cerec sales in practices over the lastfew years has them trying to make up for things with labs now, like the 4.0 software. Seriously? 3 shape, dental wings, delcam, and many others have been changing the industry with their amazing cad software and now, years later, sirona is trying to catch up. your right YMS96, 25 years as the "Leader," pretty sad state the cad industry would be in if that were true!!

 

[dentprof]

Are you a PAID advocate? Do you do lectures and presentations on their behalf?

As for vesatility, I would argue that there is a MUCH MUCH MUCH wider selection of materials in standard 98 and 100mm pucks, from hundreds of sources and at prices from suspiciously low to astronomically high (Sirona ranges).

Mark, we met in Indianapolis. My name is Mike Suris and I am a paid advocate. The only time I am not compensated is when I speak for my own lab and when I participate in these forums. Hopefully you were compensated for your time in Indy as well.

 

[dentprof]

Harmony from what you have stated in the past you are a red system user. Unfortunately good fits with the red system are harder to achieve. The inEos Blue has been a major improvement for many of us. Maybe you should take a look at it before knocking it.

 

[dentprof]

Randy Hill- Sorry to hear your fits are not good. If you want to contact me I will see if I can help you achieve better fits. There are several of us trainers that can help.

 

[TheLabGuy]

Harmony from what you have stated in the past you are a red system user. Unfortunately good fits with the red system are harder to achieve. The inEos Blue has been a major improvement for many of us. Maybe you should take a look at it before knocking it.

I find this funny, a cerec mouthpiece comes on this forum touting NOW it's a good product. I could of swore they were saying the same thing about the red cam not that long ago too. So NOW we should believe Sirona/Patterson and spend tens of thousands dollars more because they say NOW they have it all figured it out and they even changed it from red to blue so you don't get confused and oh yeah, NOW we agree, you guys were right, that red cam you spent tens of thousands dollars on didn't work that good at all....and NOW after talking shlt to all your Dentists that Cerec will replace you, we NOW realize we need you. Thanks, NOW I get it.

 

[dentprof]

I find this funny, a cerec mouthpiece comes on this forum touting NOW it's a good product. I could of swore they were saying the same thing about the red cam not that long ago too. So NOW we should believe Sirona/Patterson and spend tens of thousands dollars more because they say NOW they have it all figured it out and they even changed it from red to blue so you don't get confused and oh yeah, NOW we agree, you guys were right, that red cam you spent tens of thousands dollars on didn't work that good at all....and NOW after talking shlt to all your Dentists that Cerec will replace you, we NOW realize we need you. Thanks, NOW I get it.

LabGuy- Sorry "TheLabGuy", I am not a CEREC mouthpiece. Maybe an inLab mouthpiece. I understand that they promoted the red system when that was the best they had to offer. It sure looks like that is what all the companies are guilty of. 3shape has promoted all of their scanners as the best until they come up with a new model. I was not pleased with the red either, it did work on most cases but certainly not all. I just know that the blue has improved things in my lab and that is why I agreed to be a so called "mouthpiece" for them.

 

[TheLabGuy]

LabGuy- Sorry "TheLabGuy", I am not a CEREC mouthpiece. Maybe an inLab mouthpiece. I understand that they promoted the red system when that was the best they had to offer. It sure looks like that is what all the companies are guilty of. 3shape has promoted all of their scanners as the best until they come up with a new model. I was not pleased with the red either, it did work on most cases but certainly not all. I just know that the blue has improved things in my lab and that is why I agreed to be a so called "mouthpiece" for them.

Thank You for validating my comment, carry on.

 

[DMC]

Both the Blue and the Red are far outside of Dentistry in terms of accuracy.

I would feel like a d1ck promoting such a POS. That's just me.

The very fisrt Lava scanner has a resolution of around 4uM.

Laser scanners cannot touch this. The new Nobel scanner is very close and I am very impressed by the scan data.

 

[paulg100]

"I find this funny, a cerec mouthpiece comes on this forum touting NOW it's a good product. I could of swore they were saying the same thing about the red cam not that long ago too. So NOW we should believe Sirona/Patterson and spend tens of thousands dollars more because they say NOW they have it all figured it out and they even changed it from red to blue so you don't get confused and oh yeah, NOW we agree, you guys were right, that red cam you spent tens of thousands dollars on didn't work that good at all....and NOW after talking shlt to all your Dentists that Cerec will replace you, we NOW realize we need you. Thanks, NOW I get it."

Rob you so hit the nail on the head with this!

Sirona have NO credability left and i still have thousands to pay on a scanner thats garbage.

Me Bruv was contacted recently by a CEREC sales guy trying to sell him a blue cam CEREC unit. He told them as we have the inlab already, send us an ineos blue cam to evaluate, so we can see if the units will fit using it, and if so he would consider purchasing a CEREC unit.

No big suprise but no one ever came back to him

"3shape has promoted all of their scanners as the best until they come up with a new model"

Dentprof: the BIG difference is that 3shapes previous scanners work! unlike the redcam which was never up to the job to begin with!

Anyway ill shut up as i really need to sell my wounderful inlab system, its great..honest

 

[TheLabGuy]

Good luck selling it Paul, and you're right...reputation is everything in this business.

 

[Mark Jackson]

Mark, we met in Indianapolis. My name is Mike Suris and I am a paid advocate. The only time I am not compensated is when I speak for my own lab and when I participate in these forums. Hopefully you were compensated for your time in Indy as well.

Oh, Hi Michael!

No, actually, I was not compensated for my time (room n board only) I never lecture on any system or product specifically. My topics are usually business related, and cover many systems.

I have been blessed to have a small amount of success in this industry and feel compelled to give back. Especially to state components that are suffering as that one is.

 

[Mark Jackson]

LabGuy- Sorry "TheLabGuy", I am not a CEREC mouthpiece. Maybe an inLab mouthpiece. I understand that they promoted the red system when that was the best they had to offer.

I was not pleased with the red either, it did work on most cases but certainly not all.

That was what I had in here. All my judgement of InLab is based on 6+ months living with it, and trying to get products that competed with what we were getting from Lava.

 

[harmonylab]

Harmony from what you have stated in the past you are a red system user. Unfortunately good fits with the red system are harder to achieve. The inEos Blue has been a major improvement for many of us. Maybe you should take a look at it before knocking it.

Oh, I'm sorry. I must have been imagining the blue light that my scanner emits. And I guess it's mislabeled as well, since it says "inEos Blue" on it.

YOU should take a better look before making assumptions.