Sirona inLab question.

[skoo9382]

from reading on this forum from time-to-time, i've learned that the Sirona inLab doesn't seem to be a popular choice due to the lack of advancements in the software and materials. That being said, my boss has chosen to go with the Sirona inLab system. According to him, his deciding factor was A: the technical support that comes along with it through Patterson. If for any reason the machine would not work, we would get a loaner through Patterson immediately. and B: the fact that this system would be able to mill Emax as well as Zirconia, and maybe eventually Chrome Cobalt, and also that's in his comfortable price range.

i know there are quite a few Sirona inLab users out there. i've been searching for a forum dedicated to Sirona inLab but unfortunately i can't find one.

If there's anyone out there that has been using the Sirona inLab for a while now and know the "tricks of the trade" that they would be willing to share, i'd be happy to exchange personal emails.

a couple of questions i have are:
1. is there anyway to stack mill veneers using zirconia?
2. anyway to stack mill a crown designed by using correlation?

bottom line is, i didn't choose this system, but i have to learn to use it. and if i'm going to use it, i want to use it to the best of my abilities.

a couple of things i have already done.
1. design and mill full contour Zirconia crowns
2. stack mill 3 mandibular incisors with a C14 Emax bloc.

thank you in advance.

 

[paulg100]

a couple of questions i have are:
1. is there anyway to stack mill veneers using zirconia?
2. anyway to stack mill a crown designed by using correlation?

Man your in for some pain! but anyhow:

1. no - how are you bonding zirconia veneers?!?
2. no

what cam you using, blue or red? how are your fits with the glass materials so far? are you getting consistent 360 sealed margins?

 

[paulg100]

Oh and taken from recent news on Sironas website:

"Each dentist who uses the chairside method, also enjoys a clear economic advantage, since there are no laboratory costs involved. Every restoration made in-house is a success, because the dentist controls the entire process and receives immediate feedback from the patient."

So how comes your boss decided to support Sirona when they would rather have every dentist have an in-surgery mill and put dental labs out of business?

Its painfully obvious they only introduced an inlab system to milk the R&D they put into CEREC.

Waiting to see how biased the new 4.0 s/w is still towards surgery use, with many of the features that labs need still missing, we shall see...

 

[zvac]

Check out the "InLab Study Group" on Facebook.

 

[TheLabGuy]

Oh and taken from recent news on Sironas website:

"Each dentist who uses the chairside method, also enjoys a clear economic advantage, since there are no laboratory costs involved. Every restoration made in-house is a success, because the dentist controls the entire process and receives immediate feedback from the patient."

So how comes your boss decided to support Sirona when they would rather have every dentist have an in-surgery mill and put dental labs out of business?

Its painfully obvious they only introduced an inlab system to milk the R&D they put into CEREC.

Waiting to see how biased the new 4.0 s/w is still towards surgery use, with many of the features that labs need still missing, we shall see...

See, this is why there is a No Sirona/Patterson sign right under my No g sign entering my lab. That's a crappy statement right there Sirona, I'd be embarrassed if I was a rep.

 

[mattgdow]

in lab

I currently have the cerec in-lab. It is a great machine if your a dentist and can fill in your margins with cement, but in the real world i have found that i spend a lot of time getting the crowns, copings, veneers fit down, (well i would never mill veneers with it again). I haven't seen the Patterson rep in probably 4 years, unless i see them at the local dental office trying to sell them a cerec. they have some good feautures and if you are a small lab and have the time to fit them down than its not bad!

That said i have a 2008 mc xl with a ineos scanner(old one) a zircomat furnace and a ak2000 dongle which has about 1950 mills left. the machine has only milled around 200 units so is in prestine condition, were asking 30K for everything.. your still going to get the upgrades from patterson. like the one that makes you use there blocks so you lose a little more of your profit margin. I bought 3 full contour yz blocks just to try for 33 dollars a piece, which i normally get for around 15 a piece.

 

[DMC]

We mill full YZ (Bruxzir) for only $29/unit from Sirona scans.

$33/unit just for the block from Patterson sounds like 3M prices?

Actually more! Yikes.

 

[Alistar]

Oh and taken from recent news on Sironas website:

"Each dentist who uses the chairside method, also enjoys a clear economic advantage, since there are no laboratory costs involved. Every restoration made in-house is a success, because the dentist controls the entire process and receives immediate feedback from the patient."

So how comes your boss decided to support Sirona when they would rather have every dentist have an in-surgery mill and put dental labs out of business?

This is funny. I was just talking to a young doc when I dropped off a veneer prep guide and he was saying that if he had a Cerec he could mill and seat E.max crowns in 10min.(duh..) He had so much smoke blown up his $%@ by Paterson it was coming out his ears....I asked him what oven he was going to run the 50minute crystalization cycle in....as I glanced over at his Ney MarkIII...

We don't have a mill at our lab, but I have done a couple milled E.max through Strauman to compair to pressing, so I only know the proccess after milling. What is the timeline from start to complete finish of an E.max if you are milling on a Cerec? (Scan,design,mill,crystalize,stain/glaze)

 

[RileyS]

My first tip for a first timer (coming from a 5 yr veteran),is do not keep any baseball bats, crowbars, or shotguns nearby as the temptation to freak out on it will be strong from time to time. My second tip for you is to remember that you have a certain amount of time to return the sirona system.
yes there is some wway to stack veneers. Rep wouldn't teach me how though.

 

[patmo141]

What is the timeline from start to complete finish of an E.max if you are milling on a Cerec? (Scan,design,mill,crystalize,stain/glaze)

Well, guys, here is where I have to come clean. I have used the cerec in office system, I hope you all will forgive me. The doc where I did my externship was very supportive of my learning and let me design, mill and stain and glaze. I have to dig way back in the memory here so these may be off. I would be interested just to see how much time we were spending compared to what the lab would be doing.

Scan: N/A I think in office vs inLab is going to be different

Design: 5 minutes if everything is perfect up to 20+ for a myriad of reasons including gloved hands on a big trackball, a bad update one time and a time where it got stuck looping through this biogeneric proposal which was very embarassing. Most of the time 8 minutes I think.

10-20 minutes of milling if you didn't have to change a bur, at which point it starts over and ghost mills the whole path again.

5 minutes playing with the paint brush (stain/glaze/crystalize in one step) and balancing it on the stick with the putty.

21 minutes in the oven plus another 10 to cool. Crowns in one **cough** very long **cough** visit.

I can't remember the stand alone glaze cycle or the corrective firing cycle. We did do a few where we did it in separate steps.

 

[paulg100]

"yes there is some wway to stack veneers"

No...there is no way to stack mill veneers... The only way is to call the veneer a framework, then you can stack mill veneer "Shells".

If you want proper veneers, ie to full contour or cut back, you cant stack mill.

Patmo.. you forgot to factor in the 15-20min per unit for seating and then the time taken to add to margins with ceramic which may take multiple firings.

 

[DMC]

Admiting you have a problem is the first of the Twelve step program Pat.

Good for you! I hope your recovery goes smooth.

 

[avillon]

hi guys you can join Inlab study group on facebook
Welcome to Facebook - Log In, Sign Up or Learn More

 

[BobCDT]

We have several mills in our operation. We understand milling and precision.
We had the inlab and dumped it for shot $$$$. One of those very bad decisions that one makes in business.
We were never ever able to get routine quality fits or margins. E.max, vita, and Empress millings would require repairs of the margins and additional seating time. I don't know about you, but I can't send out new restorations that have repairs. It OK for an old denture but despicable for a new all ceramic restoration.
we were promised the world and found the mill could not deliver.
We did make a bunch of gems with it.
Very expensive system for provisionals.

 

[harmonylab]

When my machine, still under warranty, was down for a month because of an internal leak, I found out that Patterson charges over $100 a day for a loaner. Not only that, there wasn't even a loaner available. I wouldn't count on a loaner if I were you. But who knows, maybe Patterson USA is different...

from reading on this forum from time-to-time, i've learned that the Sirona inLab doesn't seem to be a popular choice due to the lack of advancements in the software and materials. That being said, my boss has chosen to go with the Sirona inLab system. According to him, his deciding factor was A: the technical support that comes along with it through Patterson. If for any reason the machine would not work, we would get a loaner through Patterson immediately. and B: the fact that this system would be able to mill Emax as well as Zirconia, and maybe eventually Chrome Cobalt, and also that's in his comfortable price range.

i know there are quite a few Sirona inLab users out there. i've been searching for a forum dedicated to Sirona inLab but unfortunately i can't find one.

If there's anyone out there that has been using the Sirona inLab for a while now and know the "tricks of the trade" that they would be willing to share, i'd be happy to exchange personal emails.

a couple of questions i have are:
1. is there anyway to stack mill veneers using zirconia?
2. anyway to stack mill a crown designed by using correlation?

bottom line is, i didn't choose this system, but i have to learn to use it. and if i'm going to use it, i want to use it to the best of my abilities.

a couple of things i have already done.
1. design and mill full contour Zirconia crowns
2. stack mill 3 mandibular incisors with a C14 Emax bloc.

thank you in advance.

 

[Mark Jackson]

hi guys you can join Inlab study group on facebook
Welcome to Facebook - Log In, Sign Up or Learn More

I highly suggest users, or those considering it join. The founder is a very cool Canadian guy, but most of the people who post have an agenda though. As is the case with any Cerec/Sirona group

 

[Anton Khromov]

Hello everybody! Question to Scott *** - is it possible to mill Sirona Cerec .cdt or other file on other milling unit Zirconzahn for example? Is there a need to convert files?

 

[Randy Hill PhD]

My only comment would be I wish I had known about this site before I wasted so much time and money trying to work with In-lab, and the glorious Patterson support system. In 2 months, I returned the entire lot to them gladly. I had one moronic Inlab user in Richmond, who I heard through the grapevine say that it "took a special type of person to be able to use the InLab system." Yes, it does.............. Helen Keller, because your a55 would have to be blind to see that the margins aren't closed!!!!!!!!!!!! Support??? Yes, blame the technician for his scans weren't accurate. I won't do business with either anymore. My a55 is still feels like the opening scene of "Bonanza" from all the smoke blown up it. Some of you ol timers will recall the map on fire...... the young ones are going whaaaaaaaaaaaat?????????

 

[a3dl]

you can stack mill veneers in reduced mode by calling them crowns or frameworks..you can not stack correlation designs bc of the limitations of menu options