Identica Blue + STEINBICHLER SCAN ST II + Yena DC40

[cadfan]

D900 is too expensive for me . 32.000 euros plus 23% tax = 40 k euros . And I have to add 1500 euros every year for the software rent . Too much . I want to add another mill this year , a yenadent D15 . For 40 k I am getting the scanner AND the small mill . In any case , D900 is the only 3shape I would buy , and it is too expensive for my pocket . I haven't seen the blue in action yet , that's why I am curious . I have heard about 7 microns accuracy for the Blue , which is ok for my needs .

My main question is if there is any way of accurate transfer of the occlusion from analog to digital . So far , I can't say I am happy with that , with either of my two scanners . I am doing lots of full arches and FMR , so I need something accurate . GC scanner has failed to do that . Its design won't let it do it . The most accurate way I can think is by scanning the articulator itself . Other than the Zirkonzahn , SmartOptics 885 and ZFX evolution scanners , is there any other scanners out there that can do that ? I saw a plate for medit and Artex articulators . Does it work ?

How is your normal workflow , wax up on situ model transfered to präp model , wax up on the prep model , upper or lower or both at one time. Normally the TMJ must be registered 885 OK ZZ OK the rest i dont think so ( its only for from interest with TMJ data) . Did you have all models in the same arti ( situ , präp antagonists ) and can you change every one against the other and which articulator do you use.Do you always make full jaws at one time or divided first front than side with options to match.

 

[Drizzt]

Amann Girbach Map300 and Map400 scanners can scan articulated models and have a virtual articulator.

What issues did you have with the GC scanner?

My issues with the GC scanners are the following . I am absolutely sure that the scanner was rushed into production . Within a month I had the scanner it was upgraded twice I think .

After that , their so called revolutionary patented system for implant scanning with their scan flags is not working 8 months after the scanner was released .This was the reason I bought the thing . Virtual articulator is not working .I have great problems scanning full arch or full mouth cases . The main problem is the vestibular scan . There is a holder I have , but it kinda sucks . They will release a holder for Artex articulators , but I doubt it will make any difference . It is a design thing IMO .

Support is not good , meaning that I can't reach anyone at the support the time I need to . Plus , many promises were made that were not kept . So , I have a 30 k scanner , and I am scanning abutments with my 7 years old DW 5 series . So I paid 30 k and I still do the same I was doing before . I am a little unhappy . They promised they will do a big update at the end of this month that will fix everything . I can't say I trust them to be honest .

 

[Drizzt]

How is your normal workflow , wax up on situ model transfered to präp model , wax up on the prep model , upper or lower or both at one time. Normally the TMJ must be registered 885 OK ZZ OK the rest i dont think so ( its only for from interest with TMJ data) . Did you have all models in the same arti ( situ , präp antagonists ) and can you change every one against the other and which articulator do you use.Do you always make full jaws at one time or divided first front than side with options to match.

My normal workflow is wax up , scan it and make the framework according to the wax up . When I have a full mouth , I like to have them on occlusion so I can check the case as whole . I usually have the master models on the same articulators , and the wax up of initial models separately . 885 is making sense for me because I work with SAM articulators , and they have the fixing device for SAM Axiosplit system . Then I can have the models articulated on SAM , and just change the to the fixator and scan problem free . I always do full jaws at one time , unless I have to make a supra structure over the framework .

 

[cadfan]

My normal workflow is wax up , scan it and make the framework according to the wax up . When I have a full mouth , I like to have them on occlusion so I can check the case as whole . I usually have the master models on the same articulators , and the wax up of initial models separately . 885 is making sense for me because I work with SAM articulators , and they have the fixing device for SAM Axiosplit system . Then I can have the models articulated on SAM , and just change the to the fixator and scan problem free . I always do full jaws at one time , unless I have to make a supra structure over the framework .

Can be done with the medit too but
Now the SO 885 is competitive they have done their homework in the past they where to slow the big advantage is the full registrated arti especially for you as SAM user. The problem using wax ups on the model are non reached areas thats why the danish goes the other way but the view field from the SO is big enough and the rest can bee closed without problems.They are not the leaders but they have done a lot in speed and bar accuracy
Medit for example can do the same the problem is a better fixture for the models ( makes it easier),the TMJ position and wax up on separate pre planing model where you dont have the option to make it via matching their are simple ways for both problems and better bar accuracy too. But the Koreans maybe dont understand. Ill tried to ask them a few questions over the time but no reaction maybe my mails are hijacked by the north.

 

[Drizzt]

Can be done with the medit too but
Now the SO 885 is competitive they have done their homework in the past they where to slow the big advantage is the full registrated arti especially for you as SAM user. The problem using wax ups on the model are non reached areas thats why the danish goes the other way but the view field from the SO is big enough and the rest can bee closed without problems.They are not the leaders but they have done a lot in speed and bar accuracy
Medit for example can do the same the problem is a better fixture for the models ( makes it easier),the TMJ position and wax up on separate pre planing model where you dont have the option to make it via matching their are simple ways for both problems and better bar accuracy too. But the Koreans maybe dont understand. Ill tried to ask them a few questions over the time but no reaction maybe my mails are hijacked by the north.

So , would you recommend SO 885 ? Will it suit my needs ? I will have to find someone who owns it and test it !

 

[cadfan]

So , would you recommend SO 885 ? Will it suit my needs ? I will have to find someone who owns it and test it !

If you want the TMJ yes if not their are some options with a little bit vision and some work. If you layer most of your crowns the TMJ is not from interest and their are maybe better options.The rest if you want via PM because its simple and not !!! many ways to be misunderstood.

 

[fleshfly]

Hi guys, just wanted to post a picture of a case we did today. i will try to put more i really have no time now .
Things are going really nice too much to learn!! But i think we are on the right track after 2 months with the machine. This is allready my own strategy it took me a while to make this one because of the interface since is straumann tissue level, the hardest i have to mill due to the small groove.

2:20m CoCr bridge.

 

[dmonwaxa]

Very nice!

 

[cadfan]

Your on the right track the old straumann are still a mission nice job bad implant . Is it nem or titanium and do you work with solid implant interfaces changed in the cam or stl

 

[fleshfly]

Your on the right track the old straumann are still a mission nice job bad implant . Is it nem or titanium and do you work with solid implant interfaces changed in the cam or stl

This interface was draw by me on solidworks based on the original one, after more then 10 abutments milled with changes small as 0.01 we found the fitting we wanted. After that i replaced the ddg connection by this one, i can make that with micron precision (0.001). I will try to put a picture of a bar tomorrow and some xray.

 

[Drizzt]

Wow!! It looks great !!!!

 

[AdrianB]

Hi guys, its been busy days...

We have finally our yena and scan stii!!
Just a note on the medit, it was very nice. Everything i made with it was perfect incluing a bar. Just made one bar but very nice passive fitting.

So the new toys.
View attachment 16048
A simple thing about Scan st ii... is the best scanner i have ever tried!
Im very happy i bought it! Its not the fastest, its fast enough, but the image quality is outstanding! Just one pass and the scan markers look like 3d drawing. Very few data void. I will post pictures tomorrow not at the office. Using exoscan is very easy to work! DDG scan markers are also very good!
Just hade the time to make one bar with it (started working with it this monday) and it was also very good passive fitting already made with dc40.

View attachment 16049

View attachment 16050

The dc40 is great, im only working with it since wednesday but i see precision. Working with a new version of picasoft not yet avaiable. The software looks nice easy to do your own strategys but yet a lot to learn in every way (software and miller, i dint even new what was a refractometer until last week only i can say for sure about the miller is that i like the results. I will post picturs.

We work a lot with straumann and for the guys that allready mill metal with this implants im sure you also think they hard to mill. Im using 8 tolls for it. Whats the smallest burs you use with this implant? Im trying to fine tune this connection so we can have the best fitting. what library to mill are you guys using?
View attachment 16051 Ali Erken for those ho dont know him, at my lab wen we were trying to see the best way to mill this wile we set up the machine for the first time.

Hi there, you said that you designed the first bar. Were you able to get the bar module for your new ST 2 scanner ? Where are you located. And where did you buy the scanner from. In USA is sold by Jensen, but it doesn't come with the bar module, only implant module. Thanks, Adrian.

 

[AdrianB]

We do all bars on the Steinbichler.

Was worth the extra money for me.

Congrats on the new toys!

NICE!

Hi ***, where did you get your Steinbichler from. Were able to get the bar module? I am looking into getting it from Jensen in a package but they don't have the bar module. Thanks. Adrian.