Willi Geller shades problem...

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I clicked on them, but Im getting 'Bad 404'.
 
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howitsmade

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sorry, my mistake. Now should be good :)
 
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I agree with you...the fifth tab looks best. That display you created shows exactly what youre looking for. There is a special temp where your glass wants to be fired. Too low and it will be cloudy. Too high and it will get frosty. Dial in some where around your tab #5. If it was starting to get rounded edges, drop the temp just a bit. When its in the clear range and your edges maintain their shape, you got it.

One minute hold seems long, but I dont remember what Creation suggested. Good job though...your stuff is going to look so much better. Now you need to ask for a raise.;)

I forgot...Youre the Boss.Rock
 
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howitsmade

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So if I decided that best temp for me is 975 (55 higher that it used to be) I need raise bonder, opaque, shoulder, dentin and glaze for 55 degrees, right?
Bonder -980 need to be raised to 1035
Opaque -980/950 to 1035/1005
Shoulder - 950 to 1005
Dentin - 920/910 to 975/965 (or every dentin firing at 975?)
Glaze - 900 to 955

Yes, in Creation manual, every firing is with 1 minute holding (except selfglazing)
 
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No. This test doesnt show that your ovens temps are off...its just showing the ideal temp to fire the porcelain. You could still tweek the opaque temp based on appearance, but I wouldnt necessarily change anything else. Different techs use different techniques on multiple firings; You could use the same temp for multiple add ons but reduce the hold, or maintain the same hold and drop the temp. Fun, huh?
 
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Bob is giving very solid advice and the only correct way to learn what temp to fire any brand of porcelain.. BUT... I don't understand why your oven is so far off.
Have your calibrated your oven, and calibrated correctly? Never used a digital oven that fires so far off the "Suggested" firing parameters.
Of all the ovens I've used, I'm usually firing within 15 C on the higher side..

Its been years since I used Creation but I do remember the first couple of crowns I fired were fired slightly low and Creation chips easily on incisal edges and marginal ridges if under-fired.
You want your opaque to have a sheen no matter what temp it takes and bisbakes should be just shy of being glazed.
The dentin-enamel line your seeing is an easy fix. Creation has a lot of chroma and will have an opaque look if you don't blend enamel down the facial/buccal. Either wipe back with your brush or instrument at an slight angle rather than spooning out to allow for enamel.. That is what you did to see that line ! spooning ;)
Take a good look at the Classical shade guide. Classical /Vita shades have blended enamel going past the incisal 1/3.
As far as your shades being off, that's near impossible with Creation unless you under firing opaques or having grey metal show through/ opaque to thin. Firing dentin at the correct temp is also key to achieving better shades.
Creation has a tendency to appear dark, to much chroma, if you don't blend down the facial, aprox half way or more.
fyi I would suggest going to Chicago for Jensen's convention.. That one weekend will put you years ahead in techniques, and a small price to pay for all that can be learned.
 
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howitsmade

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what is 'calibration'? I though calibration is finding a correct temp, what I almost did yesterday...

Sorry, Chicago is so, so far away... other continent:)
 
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what is 'calibration'? I though calibration is finding a correct temp, what I almost did yesterday...

Sorry, Chicago is so, so far away... other continent:)
Your oven comes with a Calibration Kit...Calibrate first, then calibrate with clear porcelain..
If you bought your oven used and don't have the calibration kit? I bet the kit is fairly cheap to reorder from ?

If you unable to find/buy a calibration kit, no problem ! just calibrate with porcelain. ;)
 
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howitsmade

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yes, my oven is new. no i don't have calibration kit.
 
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I dont believe you need one. I dont have the same oven, but I believe that Zublers are all self calibrating. Someone correct me if Im wrong please.
 
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my suppliers says that Zublers oven don't need calibration, because temp shown on the screen is exactly the same as inside the oven. He also said that 920 degrees is correct high temp for first dentin.
So now I'm confused about my temp's...
 
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my suppliers says that Zublers oven don't need calibration, because temp shown on the screen is exactly the same as inside the oven. He also said that 920 degrees is correct high temp for first dentin.
So now I'm confused about my temp's...
What have I told you so far that has been incorrect? Thats not to say that there arent those who disagree with me...but I am still correct.
 
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...case in point: The 'correct' firing temp for any porcelain will be different from lab to lab; oven to oven. There is no one correct temp for any given brand of glass. The mfrg lists a 'suggested' temp in their firing schedules as a starting point. Thats what Zubler pre loads into your oven.

Chocolate chip cookies take 7 minutes 45 seconds in my oven at 375 degrees. The same recipe takes 8 minutes 15 seconds at my friends place to get the same result. Whose correct...the recipe on the bag of chips, or me?
 
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How can an oven possibly self calibrate without a silver test?
 
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...case in point: The 'correct' firing temp for any porcelain will be different from lab to lab; oven to oven. There is no one correct temp for any given brand of glass. The mfrg lists a 'suggested' temp in their firing schedules as a starting point. Thats what Zubler pre loads into your oven.

Chocolate chip cookies take 7 minutes 45 seconds in my oven at 375 degrees. The same recipe takes 8 minutes 15 seconds at my friends place to get the same result. Whose correct...the recipe on the bag of chips, or me?

The mere fact that you know how long it takes to bake cookies at your friends house concerns a fella like me!!! :p
 
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The mere fact that you know how long it takes to bake cookies at your friends house concerns a fella like me!!! :p
Yeah, I thought you wore boots and drank your liquor straight??
 
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