Versacryl

[CloudPeakDL]

Has anyone out there used this great product?
I have been using it about a year and love it. Am willing to share tips and techniques with anyone interested. I have not done a full reline yet would love to know if someone else has how it worked out.
I have made lingual flanges; clasps; gasket clasps; and relined over abutments. Has worked great for all these applications. It does require patient compliance with clasps. They have to warm the appliance before insertion and removal. Comes in pink and clear.
Versacryl - A Multi-Purpose Thermal Dental Acrylic

 

[CShof]

I've always used Perma-Soft and I'm not exactly sold on that stuff yet. So I'm looking to try something new and the Versacryl literature makes the stuff sound great. Just bought some new soft liner material so it'll be awhile before I need more but I'd love to hear any tips you have before I try it out myself. Can you use the clear as a cu-sil type gasket? Does it stay clear with age?

 

[CloudPeakDL]

I have used it for about a year now on several cases and have not had any come back with issues. I don't know what a cu-sil type gasket is but I have use it to surround a tooth? It works great in undercuts because you can vary how hard or soft the material sets to. You do have to be careful not to add to much powder to the liquid when mixing and you have to make it in small batches; it's hard to do more than 2 clasps at one time because it sets up quick.

 

[CShof]

I like the idea of a tissue clasp for certain patients, how do you think they'll hold up, do they give you a life expectancy? What kind of things are you able to do using the self cure method? What kind of things seem better suited for heat cure? How easily does it finish and polish?

Cu-sil is a brand name of a company that makes gasket material(sorry for being vauge before, its for surrounding a tooth). Very easy to use and its flexibility is excellent. Stays clear just about forever but it tears easily. Using clear Perma-Soft as a gasket is much more durable but it tends to get cloudy with time.

 

[CloudPeakDL]

I haven't had a clasp break yet. You fabricate them in the open position- just a little block out so when they warm it they can take it in and out without stressing it- When I make the clasps I don't wrap the tooth like you do with wire, I engage about half so you don't have a thin part to snap off; it's more of a clip I guess.
When they insert they just press on them a little and they hold. It does take patient compliance they have to rinse with warm water before taking it out to release the clasps. You need a second cast to check the fit - I like to have them take the impression in something I can pour again but duplicating the cast works also. This is factored into the cost.
This is acrylic so it should last as long as the appliance lasts. I have not had to replace a gasket clasp yet but I have used it to replace a silicone one that wore out.
As for heat vs cold, lingual flanges are best heat cured but not required. I do all my clasps cold cure. And I'm still waiting to do a reline.
Finish and polish is the same as acrylic; you surround the softest part of a gasket clasp with harder material so you dont have an issue with rolling it. The shade matches Lucitone 199 and Nature-cryl very well.

 

[CShof]

Thanks for the info. So you only need to wrap half way around the tooth for it to be secure? Are you saying it looks like a regular clasp with the end cut off and rounded for durability? Sorry, trying to picture this in my head. How much tooth do you cover with the clasp and how much tissue gets covered? Can you secure the partial using only the tissue, do patients tolerate this well? It looked like that was an option on the Versacryl website from above. You wouldn't happen to have a pic you can post would you?

 

[CloudPeakDL]

Sorry no pics; didn't think to take any.
The clasps looks somewhat like you picture and you cover as much of the tooth as you need; I normally come a little higher than you would for a reg clasp. Just above when the undercut starts. You do not want to engage a huge undercut, just enough to secure. Again fabricate with blockout in place 0 degree seems to be enough and then warming it allows patient to push it into undercut. The clasp does not get soft and mushy it just gets a little fexible. Same with lingual flanges; you engage more of the undercut to stabilize man denture but you can't engage a huge void and still get it to release but you can get deeper than traditional acrylic.
The kit is sold through Zahn for $189, you need a couple silicone dappen dishes and small acrylic blade. The amount mixed is so small you could buy the kit and practice on a couple old casts to get the feel for it. You don't want to add to much powder to the liquid; and make sure you mix the liquid before adding powder.
I have never fabricated a tissue appliance coming from the sulcus. It doesn't look comfortable to me but may work well for some people.
I have thought this material would work well for cleft palete cases. I made a few in the A. Force and could have used a material like this.
Please let me know if you use this how it works for you. I'm still learning and trying new things with it and think it has a great potential.

 

[CShof]

A couple weeks ago I got on Keystone Industries' website and ordered a free sample of Diamond D acrylic. It arrived in no time. This morning I get a package from UPS. I didn't even order it but I guess they decided I needed to try some Versacryl too. They sent me a sample of their cold cure stuff. What timing!

 

[yooper886]

I love the Diamond D acrylic!

I use it mostly on immediates and patients that are tough on their dentures and cause them to break. I have been using it for about 5 years on some cases and I think I have only had one come back needing a repair. I had to replace posterior teeth one time after it being a year in the mouth and after adding the new teeth and processing again there was no telling old acrylic from new acrylic, very color stable. I have never had a tooth pop out when using Diamond D. I only wish all the dentist I work with would use it but they are spoiled by the fit of the Ivocap. Believe me I have tried to get them to use it even offering a one time free processing for them to try. The Diamond D repair acrylic is really nice to use also.

 

[CloudPeakDL]

Love those free samples! Let me know what you think
I have never tried Diamond D, but I agree with the Ivoclar system. Used it in the A.F. but went with the cheaper Sucess version. You know the saying you get what you pay for-
I would love to trash all my Dentsply stuff and send it all to China in a box.
Do you have a color change with Ivoclar when you do a reline? I don't remember but it has been a few years since I used the system.

 

[yooper886]

Candi,

As a matter of fact there is a color change with Ivocap after a period of time plus I always end up with a line defining the old and new acrylic. No bonding issue with relining them but always end up with that darn line and have never been able to get rid of it.

With Diamond D there is no line when doing that. Here are a couple of pictures I did with Diamond D. This is with Chroma Essence shade, which I prefer. I replaced teeth #13-15 so it was a normal plane of occlusion since when I origionally done this they were set below the plane of occlusion so it would occlude with a lower partial. As you can see there is no line at all or color change after a year of being in the mouth.

 

[CloudPeakDL]

Maybe I'll get a free sample of Diamond D and see if I can press it in my Sucess system
Stay tuned.

 

[yooper886]

Candi,

Just a quick note in that you should be able to inject it with your sucess system . Diamond D also sales an injection unit that looks similar to the one you use already. I would call Keystone and ask them to make sure but I am just about 100% sure you can.

Hope everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving!!

 

[CShof]

The dentists around here are all hooked on Lucitone 199. It's a great acrylic but is costs a lot more than Diamond D, hope over time I can convince them to switch.

 

[CloudPeakDL]

How about asking one dentist to try Diamond D and see if he likes it? Then you can use him as a refrence to the other docs. I have tried this on many things, Versacryl being one of them. I have a doc who is willing to try new things and we work together on it; I will approach him first about Diamond D. Ordered my free sample and have a case I will try it on.

 

[TomZ]

A couple weeks ago I got on Keystone Industries' website and ordered a free sample of Diamond D acrylic. It arrived in no time. This morning I get a package from UPS. I didn't even order it but I guess they decided I needed to try some Versacryl too. They sent me a sample of their cold cure stuff. What timing!

Keystone is sampling Versacryl Self Curing reline kits automatically to those who request Diamond D samples. It also comes in a heatcure version.

Many users of Diamond D inject using the Success System and even a few with Ivocap.
Call Carl Rogers 1-800-333-3131 if you have questions about p/l ratios that work best with each system.

Bill has given the best testimony for the product as a user.
I can second his testimony as I was involved in the beta testing and use it exclusively here in my lab for 5 years.

 

[dentcre]

well, that versacryl is nothing el but IMPAK from cmp with a diferent name .I been using it for years.
its a great material , I use it for hard-soft splints , and like they say more liquid-- more flexible, available in clear and pink.
Great stuff

,

 

[TomZ]

If your happy with the properties it has, great. But they are NOT the same product.

 

[TomZ]

Cloudpeak,

You asked a very legitimate question on that other thread concerning Versacryl, so I thought I would come over here to answer, since it is cogent to the topic and I can avoid being called an asswipe and other things..

A little about soft liners first.

I was always under the assumption like most technicians that the most important property concerning liners was resiliency of material. But if a liner was truely resilient in the strictest sense of the word, dentures may tend to bounce off or away from the residual ridge with each application and release of masticatory force. Actually, if a liner is to truely function as a shock absorber it, the liner, must have the same viscoelasticity as the mucosa or as close as possible.

Because of this fact, the truest and most important property of a liner material is recovery.
Recovery is the amount of time/delay it takes for a compressed material to assume its original shape after deformation. Think of those space age tempurpedic type matresses v.s the spring type. Apply hand compression on both types and observe how fast the standard mattress rebounds in comparison to the slow rebound of the tempurpedic one, you can actual see your hand outline for a few seconds.

Versacryl, due to its softening property while in contact with the warmth of tissue and oral cavity takes on a slower recovery that mimics tissue rebound very closely.
Patients feel the denture fits better and it does with a Versacryl reline because it allows the denture to stay in contact while it and the tissue rebound together, rather than one faster than the other.

As a marketing tool, this is how I convinced my clients to let me use Versacryl for soft liners. Hope this helps.

 

[yooper886]

Tom,

Do you use Versacryl on all of your softliners or just selected ones? What are the different situations to where other softliners would be better for the patient?