Single Centrals

[Alistar]

Here's a couple centrals. First one turned out much better than the second. Learning a lot.

I'm struggling with creating lively contrast on my line angles and and getting low value trans where it mingles with the rest of the build.

Custom healing cap for a custom zir abutment.
<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/yuqW96zjpxEqSPZT7P73FvhFVDI0q-3zDGWZUH-2ZbA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KSf1nh7K4t4/TjmXVLHAWiI/AAAAAAAAALA/nEBWpik3bvU/s400/Image%2525207.jpg" height="268" width="400" /></a>

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/XLk76aBmYapXMxRhCTPZ9vhFVDI0q-3zDGWZUH-2ZbA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rGMg-ivPSUE/TjmXWg0LQ2I/AAAAAAAAALE/m-Qbs5XLh_w/s400/Image%2525208.jpg" height="268" width="400" /></a>

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<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/nQNR4vqYr5cGwoYJmqeE1PhFVDI0q-3zDGWZUH-2ZbA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-myJ-QiKVuIw/TjmXGlAuC6I/AAAAAAAAAKs/0zo2OIlzOSA/s400/IMG_3495.jpg" height="250" width="400" /></a>
Close, but I missed individualizing the dramatic white internal developments.
<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zwBLvkNrfn8S-9vEdLQQfPhFVDI0q-3zDGWZUH-2ZbA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KiCDUrgZ0MA/TjmXnD9AsbI/AAAAAAAAANE/NbHz5fL5EgI/s400/Image%2525203.jpg" height="268" width="400" /></a>

I don't like how the light catches face here...could be the camera angle.
<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lkzKgU7gLTjM6_E_T24nZvhFVDI0q-3zDGWZUH-2ZbA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NH1MWYXehrw/TjmXq6ouAiI/AAAAAAAAALY/JE10-acUJ-M/s400/Image%2525204.jpg" height="268" width="400" /></a>

I'll put the other one up later. Ran out of posting space.

 

[desertfox384]

Nice, could you explain your build? What is this e.max? I struggle getting the right amount of translucency with e.max, mostly veneers.

 

[Alistar]

Nice, could you explain your build? What is this e.max? I struggle getting the right amount of translucency with e.max, mostly veneers.

This was a strait bleach white zirconia core layered with Vita VM9/EmaxCeram. I did this in 2 parts. Dentin build in VM9. Then the incisal effects are E.max Ceram. I know it's radical because one is high fire and one is low fire, but they have the same CTE, and I don't really like the effect insical effect powders for VM9. (i'm sure some one will have something to say about this)

Gingival 1/3 was 50/50 1M2/1M1, rest was 1M1, but i think I put some the 50/50 mix up in the middle of the incisal 1/3. Fired. Then I used Trans Clear and OE1 in between the mamalon developments and mesial/distal incisal edges. OE2 for the m/d interporoximal. OE3/OE4 50/50 down the line angles.(too bright)

Tried laying in the "white" mamallon powder to get those white developments, but I had a hard time getting it to stay where I wanted it, without it going crooked or bleeding out of the area where i wanted it...so i just used some BL Dentin...which I knew wouldn't be as intense, but it at least it wouldn't look screwed up.

Finalized with just a touch of light yellow/brown stain down in the incisal. Really really thin glaze. Then hit it with my grey wheel and felt wheel.

 

[paulg100]

"Tried laying in the "white" mamallon powder to get those white developments, but I had a hard time getting it to stay where I wanted it, without it going crooked or bleeding out of the area where i wanted it...so i just used some BL Dentin...which I knew wouldn't be as intense, but it at least it wouldn't look screwed up."

Nice result, hit the value and incisal distribution pretty much spot on there. with those little white areas this would have been a good 9 out of 10 in my book

You using build liquid or water? much easy to get small effects where you want them with build liquid as theres so much more plasticity in it.

Another way would have been to stain the effects after your first fire then set them with a 700c and 0 hold fire programme. Then do your incisal layer.
You wont have any probs getting effects where you want them then.

Personally i would have laid those white developments on at the first dentine build with MM light as you really want a small amount of bleed. With the stain technique the effects can look to fake and harsh alot of the time although it is more predictable.

 

[NicelyMKV]

Wow! Your Father has taught you very well! Very nice result, especially with Zirconia!

 

[DeVreugd]

I agree, nice result!

 

[Alistar]

"Tried laying in the "white" mamallon powder to get those white developments, but I had a hard time getting it to stay where I wanted it, without it going crooked or bleeding out of the area where i wanted it...so i just used some BL Dentin...which I knew wouldn't be as intense, but it at least it wouldn't look screwed up."

Nice result, hit the value and incisal distribution pretty much spot on there. with those little white areas this would have been a good 9 out of 10 in my book

You using build liquid or water? much easy to get small effects where you want them with build liquid as theres so much more plasticity in it.

Another way would have been to stain the effects after your first fire then set them with a 700c and 0 hold fire programme. Then do your incisal layer.
You wont have any probs getting effects where you want them then.

Personally i would have laid those white developments on at the first dentine build with MM light as you really want a small amount of bleed. With the stain technique the effects can look to fake and harsh alot of the time although it is more predictable.

Paul, thanks for the advice. I use the e.max build liquid, but I some times just have trouble getting the porc off my brush and having it stay in the "miniature rice piece" looking form. Usually I'm not to picky about my porc consistency when I'm doing posteriors, because I'm going fast and only blotting like 2 times a build, but I'm finding I like to be much more meticulous with anteriors, so I just ordered a MPF wet/dry tray(couldn't dive for the line...could be a good Christmas present for myself tho). Glass is a lot of work to keep it "just right". I also started using the #6 Renfert Ceramicus brush, which I love. Was using a #6 Renfert Tanaka Synthetic before.

You're right about the MM light. That's what I used...as it is the only mam porc i have. Not the white. And I would have thrown that on in the dentin build, but I had to fire my VM9 first at 1710ish, 300 higher than e.max ceram.

I've always been too chicken to fire stains in my build...I've tried mixing them in my porc with very bad results, because I added WAY too much stain. I'm going to get some single central practice pieces going and experiment with this technique.

...wait, what am I saying..I'm not a Brit.

 

[Alistar]

Wow! Your Father has taught you very well! Very nice result, especially with Zirconia!

Thanks Jason!

This is all uncharted territory for me man and I'm flying solo. I don't think my dad even knew I did this piece He's great, but he doesn't use advanced build techniques....he likes to stain his effects. He's getting old and uninspired. Cruise control mode. Doesn't like to learn new stuff. I think he tried doing advanced techniques with the old first generation Creation and got frustrated with it, so he went to build, cutback, contour, stain. It's really a shame he is excellent with tooth shape and contouring and smile designs...but really never took his porcelain techniques past elementary level. Some of his work...I hate to say it..but I would not let it leave my bench. But I really love him for what he has entrusted to me and giving me the opportunity to carry on the family business....anyway..TMI. sorry.

You guys, the techs I read in the publications, and God's creation are my inspiration and learning tools.

 

[Alistar]

I agree, nice result!

Thanks Russ!

 

[NicelyMKV]

Alistar, I found that I prefer using the Empress Esthetic build up liquid with Emax. Stack it on a pen head with that stuff. I LOVE my line #6 as well. e a big difference for me. I have a few wet trays but keep going back to a lightly sandblasted glass tray. Keeps the porcelain from running away at times.

 

[NicelyMKV]

I have an awesome video by Dr. Ed Mclaren building VM-9 over zirconia. He does some really amazing things with mamelon effects.

 

[Alistar]

Alistar, I found that I prefer using the Empress Esthetic build up liquid with Emax. Stack it on a pen head with that stuff. I LOVE my line #6 as well. e a big difference for me. I have a few wet trays but keep going back to a lightly sandblasted glass tray. Keeps the porcelain from running away at times.

Yeah, that's what I have going. 6 6x4 blasted slabs...and labeled CLEARLY. Ever fire VM7 on metal framework? I HAVE! You only do that once.

I'll try that Empress liquid. Ever try the line stuff?

Ironicly I was just looking a Ed McLaren DVD set and book. Like $400 for a whole set? Can't remember the name. I think it was available through Quintessence.

 

[Alistar]

Here is the other one I was talking about. You can see the progression from the photos. The mistakes...and well, a somewhat satisfactory result. I was at less than .7mm TOTAL thickness on the facial of this thing(thanks,buccaly placed stock abutment that wasn't trimmed down enough). Picked a wrong (shade first shade tab was 1m2) which was my base shade, but I laid in 2R1.5 for that orangish middle discoloration, and prolly could have gone up to 3R1.5.. Opal Pearl white on the very pronounced line angles. EN2/OE2 50/50 for the main enamel and proble should have just used strait EN2, the opal made it too bright. Way too much trans on the incisal edge..should have just been strait EN1, no trans proc. Anyway...

This was a 2hr custom staining and recontouring appointment. This lady was in construction and in the end she and the doc were really happy with it..but I wasn't, and it was hard not to say that, but to get it "right" I would have had to totally remake the thing and have the doc shave down that abutment for some more room.

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/2uJxJjXeOY8bZTaAX5z79w?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Bow7Nt8NG_0/TlgwE-VhlfI/AAAAAAAAAQI/p192Arvj2io/s640/IMG_4101.jpg" height="400" width="640" /></a>
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<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ycS9EiljdRugtQi4EeJbew?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-zDxFZIa9RQ4/TlgxG2WBk1I/AAAAAAAAAQg/W0CN8Ia3f3s/s640/IMG_4583.JPG" height="400" width="640" /></a>
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[desertfox384]

Id love to find a dvd set or a good book that really details anteriors -Any suggestions? I have a Quintessence 2010 book in mind that looks promising.

 

[ps2thtec]

so I just ordered a MPF wet/dry tray(couldn't dive for the line...could be a good Christmas present for myself tho). Glass is a lot of work to keep it "just right". I also started using the #6 Renfert Ceramicus brush


Good luck with the MPF tray if it is the one with the leather strips in the slab. Found it left the porc too wet. And the tall lid was kind of a pain also. Back it went.

 

[Alistar]

so I just ordered a MPF wet/dry tray(couldn't dive for the line...could be a good Christmas present for myself tho). Glass is a lot of work to keep it "just right". I also started using the #6 Renfert Ceramicus brush


Good luck with the MPF tray if it is the one with the leather strips in the slab. Found it left the porc too wet. And the tall lid was kind of a pain also. Back it went.

Crap...really?

Thanks for the heads up.

Might end up getting that line.

 

[paulg100]

"but I some times just have trouble getting the porc off my brush"

Try wetting the underlying ceramic with some glaze liquid first. Then lay your "rice" bits onto that. i find it comes away from the brush much easier

As for special brushes bah! i just use the cheapest ones from my local art shop. When they wear, just chuck em and replace regularly.

desertfox: try this for starters

http://www.book4pro.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&manufacturers_id=17&products_id=782

theres no 1 book with everything in unfortunatly.

 

[rkm rdt]

Try wetting your brush slightly and dip it into the dry powder.You might be surprised how simple it is to build up accurately this way.....and no more wet diapers...

 

[ps2thtec]

Try wetting your brush slightly and dip it into the dry powder.You might be surprised how simple it is to build up accurately this way.....and no more wet diapers...

Right. I don't know why I tried the tray when I have the dry powder trays. Lab Day caught me at a weak moment. If it ain't broke don't fix it!
And I use the cheap big #10 purple Pentron brush. Has a nice point, pick up a pin head with it.
But hey Alistar, nice result on the central !

 

[Alistar]

Try wetting your brush slightly and dip it into the dry powder.You might be surprised how simple it is to build up accurately this way.....and no more wet diapers...

I do this when I have to do small add ons, but I don't like the porc on all sides of my brush when I'm building anteriors. I like to pickup a very precise amount and I find it hard to do with the dry powder technique.

Also isn't there a concern of the porc not being condensed enough with the dry technique? And what if you use build liquid? I can see that stuff building up in my porc bottle.

Anyway, I should just try it again and see what I get for results instead of thinking of reasons not to.