"Reaction Layer" e.max

[biodentg]

Reaction Layer

So I just divested a 200g after using this product I found at Lab Day.
It's suppose to eliminate any need for acid and alox blast.

The reaction layer was about 90% gone with just the first glass bead step.

Mixed tiny scoop with liquid mix and powder, investing as usual.

Should be a real time saver. I'll update after a few more.
Anybody else try this product?

Hi ps2thtec, can you please let us know the name and supplier for this product and investment used. By the way I was at Lake Geneva, Wisconsin last weekend, beautiful state. thanks.

 

[Steve Killian CDT]

We are following the instructions to the tee with the EP5000 and the e.max instruction manual. Units drop on the die most times and with little or no reaction layer. Whenever we have a problem we just reread the manual...problem solved.
Steve Killian

 

[ps2thtec]

Hi ps2thtec, can you please let us know the name and supplier for this product and investment used. By the way I was at Lake Geneva, Wisconsin last weekend, beautiful state. thanks.

This "pixie dust" product is, e-Vestic from Spectrafire TechnologiesInc.
I picked up an info card about it at Lab Day. I don't see it on their web site yet though. It's a small bottle, says treats 150-- 100gm rings. Ccomes with little spoon. I think it was in one of our trade magazines recently also . $30.

The investment I have used for years is PCI Plus. Get from Zahn. Can be used fast or slow, and have not had a cracked ring. Extremely smooth not gritty.
Fifteen minute bench set plus three without ring then into hot 1620F oven.
I tweak the ratio from 15ml special liq to 13 and dist to 25 total.

Lake Geneva is about 45min from . Everything covered in white tonight. Should be all melted by tues!

 

[JonB]

Just tried the Zubler Press-Max investment with the Zubler disposable plungers on a couple of "milled" wax-ups.
I usually use Schein's investment with my emax pressables and burnout at 1600º.
Zubler says use 1562º

We use a WhipMix ProPress 100 and have had good but not great success in controlling the reaction layer. Its the one thing I hate about emax.
Entry: 1292º
Heat Rate: 108º
Final Temp: 1695º
Hold: 15:00
Repress: 8:00
Cool: 0

I don't have pics of any done with the Schein investment, but i did catch some after today's Zubler investment. These are directly after divesting with glass beads and then steamed off. Nothing else. To me - they look like about the worst reaction layer I've seen yet! (no pixie dust - just straight up!)

 

[EJADA]

WOW! Those look like crap.

 

[JonB]

You can say that again!

no... I'll say it for you "WOW! Those look like crap."

 

[EJADA]

I found 1600 for 1 hour burn out helped some along with lower press temp. I use microstar HS though. Used speed press vest for a while but did not see much difference between that MS HS and would rather stock just the one investment.

 

[ps2thtec]

You can say that again!

no... I'll say it for you "WOW! Those look like crap."

Aside from the reac layer which should clean off, the surface of the emax appears severely "orange peel". The repress H2 seems a little long. Those pressings look over cooked. My two cents.

 

[JonB]

Some of the surface texture turns out to be the fact that they were "milled" and not waxed. Here is a shot of a milled coping that shows an orange peel surface.


I am pressing a couple waxed crowns today, with a reduced press time to 5 min. and slightly lower high temp. We'll see. I', also going back to the Schein investment on this next pressing.

 

[MasterCeramist]

I also use the Schein investment and get very good results. Once I got my furnaces dialed in I haven't had to use invex for about a year now just a quick blast to devest and I am good to go

 

[dmonwaxa]

2nd the Schein, empress esthetic and emax; minor tweaks no problems in 3+yrs.

 

[JonB]

OK - I pressed two rings this morning with my Schein investment I've been using. Not liking the surface texture, I thought I'd lower the high temp 5º and lower the time of re-press to 5 minutes on the first one. Shade pellet was an A1LT


The next ring I lowered the high temp to 1685º and the press time to 2.5 min. Shade pellet was C1LT


I have a test ring in the furnace now that I'm going to press at 1683º and 2.5 mins. and continue to lower on subsequent practice rings until I get a mis-press.

Now here's a question for you guys. Any problem re.maxing these test rings? Crowns won't be used and shade and content don't matter - just the reaction layer and surface texture is all I'm going to test for. I think it should be close enough to get into the ballpark, and can use the same parameters on the next real case that comes in.

Tomorrow - I will use the Zubler Press investment as well as their Zubler 144 with the lower pressing settings and see if they really are as good as advertised. If they fail - I won't be using Zubler, if they are better (which the jury is out with a bad cold now) I'll consider a switch.

 

[user name]

Hey Jon..I dont think youll be wowed with an investment change. The Zubler magic is in the press. Id lower the burn out to 1562 and raise the heat rate to 140, but still dont think that would make alot of difference. Can you controll the pressure in your press? How many bar are you at?

 

[rshark]

Looks seriously to me like investment problems!! I used to get pressing that looked like that. I changed three things.
1. definitely don't use debubbliser of any description.( i used to try to cheat)
2. I changed to Anaxvest from anaxdent in Germany, reaction layer problem fixed, but still not entirely happy with the quality of my pressing, the ceramic did not have the amount of translucency as it should.
3. bought an EP 3000. Big cost outlay but the combination of the investment change and the pressing furnace solved all the problems. Now we press, sandblast and fit. Perfect every time.

 

[JonB]

Thanks for the insights. We haven't used any kind of debub in over 10 years. I'm at 4.5 bar on pressure. If investment isn't the issue, then changing isn't the answer. If I had $8000.00, i'd buy a used car and lock the door for the weekend and drive to a good fishin hole!

In all seriousness - good insights guys. For now, I'll keep experimenting with lowering the high temp until i get a miss-press. Last time I got a miss-press, i was right around where I'm at now. 1683º down to 1678º - so we'll see. The last ring for the day is cooling and I'll have a look later.

1562º seems terribly low unless you've done some custom calibration to the Pro Press - or you're using a different furnace altogether. Custom calibrations on the Pro Press only last til the power goes out - then you have to reset it. Hence, I just try to figure out what it will take doing it straight up. If that somehow turns out to be 1562º - then I surely appreciate the inspiration to go that low. I wouldn't have had the nerve to try it on my own!

 

[user name]

!!!! 1562 for the burn out temp, not the press!!! But up the heat rate on the press to 140. If your press is accurate and yore pressing at or below 1685, Id say youre pushing it to a miss press.

Im not a rep, but I think you can get a reconditioned Zubler press for 6500...? (dont hit me Kirt).If not from Zubler, maybe Jensen would still have one to part with. Either way, its a bargain to get good presses.

Ill drive...I know where the big fish are

 

[JonB]

Now that sounds like a plan! Are they edible? ... the fish - not the furnaces!

Glad you cleared that up on the burnout. I just checked the burnout calibration and it is spot on. I will be using the 1562º on the Zubler investments tomorrow.

To pay off on that hideous press from last night - she cleaned up well... better than the girl i took to the prom... oh wait - i never went to any proms!

From this:


to this ready for glaze:


It worked - it was ugly, but it worked.

 

[user name]

Nice photos.

 

[SPECTRAFIRETECHNOLOGIS]

I sell a Product call E-Vestic it Eliminate Reaction layers

Mix 1 scoop (0.05 grams ) of e-Vestic
with any casting investment water / liquid
and mix & invest as usual
No acid / Super smooth finish
49.95 / 3 grams

 

[nvarras7]

Just got a trial pack of investment from anaxdent, anaxvest pm that promises no reaction layer. No reaction layer after pressing. Have pressed 3 times.