Zubler updates...

[user name]

Just sent in another Zubler vario 300 to get the updates for pressing e.max. They have been doing some other tweeks as well; the only visible one is replacing the back panel so instead of three fuses there are now two. Ive been so happy with these work horses, it was really a shot in the dark/ luxury to send in the first one for the change, but Im happy. Ive switched from using pressvest speed to microstar and am now using the disposable plungers. Something Im not using... plunger seperator, invex acid, and TIME!! My pressings are coming out 100% reaction layer free, theyre pressing faster, and of coarse my bench set time after investing is now 15 minutes instead of the 30 with the speed. Also worth mentioning..the post-press rings cool much faster from not using the alox plungers.

With so many things to be stressed about, going to work is my sanctuary. Thanks to Ivoclar for e.max, and big thanks to you guys at Zubler for making a great piece of equipment even better!

 

[NicelyMKV]

Awesome!

 

[Affinity]

What is the cost? I might do this to mine....

 

[user name]

its not cheap. The upgrade is priced about $900, but there are multiple things that go into it that are well worth the cost. Not the least of which is having skilled eyes check everything out and get basically a brand new machine back. The software upgrade is nice too...not just the special press programs. Id give Chris a call and he can tell you which software version youre using. It really is a sweet deal. Good equipment..good support.

 

[JohnWilson]

Why do you have to pay to make your machine do what they designed it to do?

Not being a smart ass here but Ivoclar has upgraded all of my machines "software related" over the years with out a charge.

I can see if they are modifying and changing hardware but I read software update.

 

[user name]

Nuts n bolts too...

 

[2thm8kr]

Wow user, that's quite a collection of power cords under your bench.
I thought I had alot, but you have me beat.

 

[department19972]

Reading the manual for the zubler 300, the advanced press program heats LD to 1050 C for a time, then brings temp down to press. What does this extra 100+ degrees C do to the crystal structure or emax?

 

[Affinity]

How do you get a shorter set time with press vest speed? please explain..

 

[user name]

The ingot doesnt actually get that hot. They calculate the temp. in the muffle based on the assumtion that you are using an investment like microstar or 144, and a disposable plunger because of what they call the thermal mass...if you used speed and an alox plunger you have two different materials to heat up that arent equally conductive. They run the heat up to get everything heated to the proper press temp quickly. If your thermocouple shows 910, the inside of your ring would be considerably less. That means the press will take longer. The idea is to heat the INSIDE of the ring to the desired temp (910) and then wham-o, shove the ingot in and get it out of the press.

So..it doesnt get the ingot any hotter. Its much like cooking. The oven temp isnt the goal. You use a meat thermometer to determine when its done.

 

[department19972]

I wonder why ivoclar has not addressed this with a software update. It looks to me in the manual to be simply a two-stage pressing program, bringing the temp up to 1050, then down to 885. How has zubler verified no change to the LD material when using this program?

The ingot doesnt actually get that hot. They calculate the temp. in the muffle based on the assumtion that you are using an investment like microstar or 144, and a disposable plunger because of what they call the thermal mass...if you used speed and an alox plunger you have two different materials to heat up that arent equally conductive. They run the heat up to get everything heated to the proper press temp quickly. If your thermocouple shows 910, the inside of your ring would be considerably less. That means the press will take longer. The idea is to heat the INSIDE of the ring to the desired temp (910) and then wham-o, shove the ingot in and get it out of the press.

So..it doesnt get the ingot any hotter. Its much like cooking. The oven temp isnt the goal. You use a meat thermometer to determine when its done.

 

[user name]

How do you get a shorter set time with press vest speed? please explain..

??? not sure what youre talking about

 

[Affinity]

" and of coarse my bench set time after investing is now 15 minutes instead of the 30 with the speed."

 

[user name]

" and of coarse my bench set time after investing is now 15 minutes instead of the 30 with the speed."

Shorter bench set time is because we're using microstar or 144. This really is good stuff. I cant so much address the science; Ill leave that to Chris or Kurt: the brains at Zubler. The results are excellent. Is there ANY change to the LD? I cant say no. The most typical issue with e.max (at least with the LT ingots) is low value. We have always had to select a lighter ingot when ever possible...not so much now. They look much nicer.

Im not a sales guy, just a happy customer.

 

[Zubler USA]

Ok, here we go...

1. Thanks for the plug User Name. 2. I will reply to individual posts with quotes. Anyone that actually wants to admit they are a manufacturer, doesn't matter to me. answer is the same.

 

[Zubler USA]

Why do you have to pay to make your machine do what they designed it to do?

Not being a smart ass here but Ivoclar has upgraded all of my machines "software related" over the years with out a charge.

I can see if they are modifying and changing hardware but I read software update.

John, Ivoclar has updated you're ovens I am sure. We routinely update ovens while in the field or while in repair. We even send updates through the mail from time to time. We can now email them with our new oven, but I digress. There is more that goes into the ADVANCED PRESS UPGRADE (Not update). than just software, but part of the charge is for the software. The software took us about 2 years to develop and is based largely on working with laboratories and others to find a more optimal set of parameters for pressing lithium disilicate. Engineers cost money, advertising cost money, time is money etc. No one else has these programs because we patented them.

 

[user name]

Ill hit you first: Am I just imagining things, or are my shades when pressing LT ingots actually more accurate? Typically they used to come out quite low in value so we would need to select a shade or two lighter ingot. Is there any chance that the physical properties have changed? What about strength?

 

[Zubler USA]

I wonder why ivoclar has not addressed this with a software update. It looks to me in the manual to be simply a two-stage pressing program, bringing the temp up to 1050, then down to 885. How has zubler verified no change to the LD material when using this program?

The material is not brought to 1050, the chamber is. Thermal mass is the key. 885 is the approximate melting temperature of lithium disilicate. The inside temperature of the ring is what we control. It never goes above the prescribed temperature thus making it actually better for the material than the typical program. Think of it in terms of energy. Short burst of intense energy, followed by a cooling time will put the same amount of energy inside an object in less time than straight line energy at a slower rate. HOwever, the benefit here is when we go to press the chamber, the outside of the ring and inside of the ring are all the same temperature. If you ever look at your pressings, you'll notice that the reaction layer formation is much heavier on the material that closer to the outside of the ring. That is because it was overheated and then combined with the investment to give you reaction layer.

 

[Zubler USA]

Reading the manual for the zubler 300, the advanced press program heats LD to 1050 C for a time, then brings temp down to press. What does this extra 100+ degrees C do to the crystal structure or emax?

The chamber is heated to 1050, not the material. One of my previous replies explains this more thoroughly.

 

[Zubler USA]

If any of you would like more information about this, it is available on here: http://www.zubler.de/files/m_vp300e_en_110209.pdf
or you can contact me directly [email protected]. Come by the booth if you are going to be in California next week. Would love to meet the faces behind the names.