Help Selecting a New Mill

[renato]

We are a quite new Lab based in South America using the old Cercon System, milling out some decent but only limited Zirconia work. Our aim is to expend a few bucks on a power horse machine that can do it all "Metal bars, abutments, emax, so on" then the 5 Axis mills are the ones, I assume.

What would be the best value for the money? Due to taxes in my country imported goods are quite salt down here, therefore I am considering to go overseas and buy one of these mills may be for half the price.
These are the available options down here:

1-Imeos-Core i450 with wet/dry and Metal Extensions - around U$150K (need to buy the scanner apart)
2-Zenotec Select Wet/Dry with scanner with Dental Wings - Around U$170K
3-Zirkonzahn M5 Wet/Dry with Metal Upgrade Motor including Scanner and Sinter oven - Around U$175K
4-Ceramill Wet/Dry- Scanner, Siter Zircon and Sinter CrCo are included - Around $140K


There is also one national brand Tecnodril that looks great, the dealer says that the footprint was based on the Famous Datron, the Metal DM5 looks great and more robust compared to the others, 750kg is massive but not sure if it is reliable. The price is quite good selling around U$100K

 

[Sevan P]

I know the 450I can do bars, but the 550I would probably be better. Imes has some tough built machines, I have worked with the 340i and that was a solid 4 axis. I voted 450i from your choices.

 

[zero_zero]

If I were to spend $150k on a mill, would look at something industrial...that money could get you a 5 axis 3 ton monster, all tooling, custom setup for dental stock and CAM software to run it...my 2 cents...

 

[cadfan]

http://www.datron.de/en_gb/dental-cadcam/dental-milling-machines/d5-linear-scales.html they had problems in the past milling bars maybe for that linear scales came out

http://files.vogel.de/vogelonline/vogelonline/companyfiles/4841.pdf direkt span

http://www.zubler.de/en/dental-ceramic/cad--cam direkt span

http://www.imes-icore.de/branchen/page.php?id=93&title=CORiTEC 550i direkt span

have a look at the zirkon of your home country mill there are margin outbrakes and 3 unit metal bridge wount impress me toolchanger is in the wet area not covered and so on.

if you want to mill real metal the 450 i is the start mill depending on quantity the others are for production , real precision for bars starts at D 5 linear scales with hyperdent from the zubler if heard its real good maschine mabe christian hannker at the http://www.dloac.org/symposium tells something about.

 

[renato]

Thank you all for the tips!

I would love to invest on the 550i but it is well overpriced down here.
The imes-core 450i was my first option, just feels wrong having to pay double the price for the same equipment down here.
I will start to looking for a imes dealer to buy directly from them.

 

[cadfan]

you can call them direkt renato most guys their speak english as well-

 

[DentalCreators by Venture]

I can suggest our dental milling machine https://www.facebook.com/VentureDental made in Italy.

Tnx Davide

[email protected] skype:davide.tagliaro.venture.it

 

[DentalCreators by Venture]

 

[Zubler USA]

We are a quite new Lab based in South America using the old Cercon System, milling out some decent but only limited Zirconia work. Our aim is to expend a few bucks on a power horse machine that can do it all "Metal bars, abutments, emax, so on" then the 5 Axis mills are the ones, I assume.

What would be the best value for the money? Due to taxes in my country imported goods are quite salt down here, therefore I am considering to go overseas and buy one of these mills may be for half the price.
These are the available options down here:

1-Imeos-Core i450 with wet/dry and Metal Extensions - around U$150K (need to buy the scanner apart)
2-Zenotec Select Wet/Dry with scanner with Dental Wings - Around U$170K
3-Zirkonzahn M5 Wet/Dry with Metal Upgrade Motor including Scanner and Sinter oven - Around U$175K
4-Ceramill Wet/Dry- Scanner, Siter Zircon and Sinter CrCo are included - Around $140K


There is also one national brand Tecnodril that looks great, the dealer says that the footprint was based on the Famous Datron, the Metal DM5 looks great and more robust compared to the others, 750kg is massive but not sure if it is reliable. The price is quite good selling around U$100K

I am not sure if these are available in South America yet, but take a look at the Zubler DC5.

http://www.zubler-usa.com/us/dental-ceramic/cadcam-solutions/milling-machine

 

[JohnWilson]

Chris is the Santa Ana facility up and running with a working DC5 ? I have been waiting for my invitation down to check out this mill.

 

[renato]

Anyone knows how much they are selling the Zenotec Select in North america or Europe?

I rather go overseas and bring it in my bag than be overcharged!!!

Zenotec Select
Zenotec Select

 

[Tayebdental]

Chris is the Santa Ana facility up and running with a working DC5 ? I have been waiting for my invitation down to check out this mill.

Is that Datron D5 John? Or i am mistaken. If it is the Datron D5 i saw it in action not long ago in NH, it is an amazing milling machine that dose many things, including taking temp of material being milled for accuracy. It is big, it weighs 2000 LB, that cradle structure which holds the puck weighs 200 LB.

 

[Zubler USA]

Chris is the Santa Ana facility up and running with a working DC5 ? I have been waiting for my invitation down to check out this mill.

The DC5 Mill is up and running. The guys in the office are out and about. You will have an invitation here in a couple of weeks. A lot is happening, more is coming soon!!!

 

[Zubler USA]

Is that Datron D5 John? Or i am mistaken. If it is the Datron D5 i saw it in action not long ago in NH, it is an amazing milling machine that dose many things, including taking temp of material being milled for accuracy. It is big, it weighs 2000 LB, that cradle structure which holds the puck weighs 200 LB.

Is that Datron D5 John? Or i am mistaken. If it is the Datron D5 i saw it in action not long ago in NH, it is an amazing milling machine that dose many things, including taking temp of material being milled for accuracy. It is big, it weighs 2000 LB, that cradle structure which holds the puck weighs 200 LB.

No, our machine is the DC5

 

[cadfan]

Its not a Datron its called DC 5 ( dental -conceptworks or dental-concept -systems is the head company) about 400 kg because of microstrukture, Datron has at the moment three D 5 for dental the best is linear scales 900 kg
http://www.dental-conceptworks.com/
http://www.dental-concept-systems.com/leistung/produktuebersicht

http://www.datron.de/en_gb/dental-cadcam/dental-milling-machines.html

 

[Orthodox]

Hello Renato, you are buying 450i or 550i? and please tell me what is the difference in precision? why the 550i is 90% expensive than 450i ?
Sorry for bothering you.

 

[Orthodox]

http://www.datron.de/en_gb/dental-cadcam/dental-milling-machines/d5-linear-scales.html they had problems in the past milling bars maybe for that linear scales came out

http://files.vogel.de/vogelonline/vogelonline/companyfiles/4841.pdf direkt span

http://www.zubler.de/en/dental-ceramic/cad--cam direkt span

http://www.imes-icore.de/branchen/page.php?id=93&title=CORiTEC 550i direkt span

have a look at the zirkon of your home country mill there are margin outbrakes and 3 unit metal bridge wount impress me toolchanger is in the wet area not covered and so on.

if you want to mill real metal the 450 i is the start mill depending on quantity the others are for production , real precision for bars starts at D 5 linear scales with hyperdent from the zubler if heard its real good maschine mabe christian hannker at the http://www.dloac.org/symposium tells something about.

Please explain me a litle bit about milling "Bars"???

 

[cadfan]

Milling bars needs ultra high precision on the scanner and mill side for passive fit.
concentricity of the mill at the center of the spindel ore at the tool end
A direct span has repeatability about 10 my a special span about 2 my
tools( hard metal) are in 10 my diameter ore 3 my radius ca. depending how they work diameter or radius milling at the side of the tool ore on the head
big mills work with measured tools each tool is in the software with correct diameter , radius and so on measured with special measuring engines
the mill expands big mills are in rooms with same temperature .during the work they get warm and expand
the positioning an repeatability of positioning of the axes controlled for example by laser
normal mills only know start and end point everything between is only calculated not controlled
all these parameters influence the fit so on a normal mill its maybe possible to mill a direct screwed bar but passive fit is more happenstance.
Some info below.

http://www.heidenhain.de/de_EN/documentation-information/documentation/technical-information/

 

[STJDENT]

Milling bars needs ultra high precision on the scanner and mill side for passive fit.
concentricity of the mill at the center of the spindel ore at the tool end
A direct span has repeatability about 10 my a special span about 2 my
tools( hard metal) are in 10 my diameter ore 3 my radius ca. depending how they work diameter or radius milling at the side of the tool ore on the head
big mills work with measured tools each tool is in the software with correct diameter , radius and so on measured with special measuring engines
the mill expands big mills are in rooms with same temperature .during the work they get warm and expand
the positioning an repeatability of positioning of the axes controlled for example by laser
normal mills only know start and end point everything between is only calculated not controlled
all these parameters influence the fit so on a normal mill its maybe possible to mill a direct screwed bar but passive fit is more happenstance.
Some info below.

http://www.heidenhain.de/de_EN/documentation-information/documentation/technical-information/

What about Imes 750I ?

 

[cadfan]

What about Imes 750I ?

same problem look at Datron linear scales or the Haas like *** and see the difference, at the different Datrons you can see the different requirements the engine looks always the same but inside very different.Have a look at the technical datasheet.