Coritec 250i vs Arum 5x-300 for small lab

P

Pictodent-SW18

Member
Full Member
Hi there,
We’re a small 2-man (hubby/wife) lab for crowns and bridges in London, using Medit T500 with Exocad for all of our work and outsourcing everything to milling centers, including emax (we can’t press). Now I’ve been looking at inhouse milling.
I’ve been reading a lot in here for some time now and have learnt from the people around here but of course some questions are still open from me.
My goal is to be independent from milling centers at least for Zirconia and emax. If I was looking for a dry mill only I would probably go for the Roland DW52, but we have so much emax that I can’t ignore the comparatively low extra cost for a wet mill and do emax milling myself, too. I’d leave metal milling to the big centers with the big machines.

So at the moment I have some offers on the table:
Coritec 250i
Arum 5x-300

From the looks of it, the Arum machine looks more modern, and easier to clean when swapping between wet and dry milling? The interior of the 250i looks more cluttered. Is there anything in particular about these that sets one apart from the other?

Wildcard: Zirkonzahn M1 wet heavy metal / or even the M2 with 2 separate orbits for wet and dry processing, using one spindle only, very interesting. Not a big fan of being limited to the special puck size though)
All in all, they are about similarly priced.

As a furnace I am looking at a smaller Nabertherm or Mihm-Vogt, with MoSi heating elements.
My last question would be about the extractor – I had the Renfert Silent compact CAM in mind, with a suction volume of 160m³/hr at 480 watts. The sales rep wanted to sell me another one with 260 m³/hr at 1400 watts, at more than double the price. Is this really necessary for a single milling unit?

Thanks so much guys, looking forward to hear about your experience.
Chris
 
Labwa

Labwa

Active Member
Full Member
I would bump up to the 350i pro if possible.
250i is a bit to small in my opionion.
We have 2 350i and they have been great.

wouldn't go near ZZ

Both furnace companies are good.

we have a silent compact CAM. It's also very good.
 
P

Pearl Dental

Member
Full Member
Have you considered the Sharp2 from DOF?

We have had the mill since January this year and has been great so far (minus any learning curve on my part as new to milling).
Its an all in one unit so no need for separate extractor or compressor and water tank is built in.
Switches from dry to wet and back very easily with very little effort or time between, just a good hoover out and wipe before switching to wet, or a quick dry with a towel inside before milling dry again..

I mainly mill zirconia and wax (everyday) and PMMA but have milled glass ceramic (emax, vita enamic) with good results using parameters found online for exocad..

definitely worth a look.

We also use Nabertherm sintering furnace which I cant fault
 
M

mmbh

Active Member
Full Member
I would bump up to the 350i pro if possible.
250i is a bit to small in my opionion.
We have 2 350i and they have been great.

wouldn't go near ZZ

Both furnace companies are good.

we have a silent compact CAM. It's also very good.
I don't have any ZZ stuff but those I know who do have it really like it. I have a Versamill 5x400 and MC X5. ZZ is more expensive I know, but is it the price, materials or equipment people don't seem to like? I'm just curious.
 
OP
P

Pictodent-SW18

Member
Full Member
Thank you very much so far,
- Coritech 350i pro seems to be in a different league with more focus on metal milling capabilities, makes it too expensive for us as a first mill
- I'm waiting on a quote for the DOF Sharp 2, it looks great and compact but I can't find many reviews or reports about durability
- Thanks for your replys about the Renfert Compact, that's what I thought, Renfert wouldn't put it on the market if it couldn't handle a single milling machine

Which Nabertherm would you recommend for a small lab (surely doesn't need to sinter 60 crowns at once) when we're looking for high translucency Zirconia?
 
Z

zahni

Member
Full Member
Nabertherm and MihmVogt are both good ovens. IMO the MihmVogt are more stable and solid.
If you can, go for the ones with lift and speed cycle.
Since 2 years we have a Vita Zyrcomat, and we are very happy with it. For us as a small lab, this one is a perfect solution. Speed, pre-dry, easy to use and programmable. Depending on the material I can speed sinter a crown under 2h.

We also use the Renfert Silent CAM, that should work fine.

Which CAM will you use?
Anyone has heard something on the new Coritec 150 line up?
 
Jason D

Jason D

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Why not encourage your clients to move away from emax to one of the high trans zirconias?

Milling emax is very hard on a mill and tools, and forces you to use a wider variety of tools and switch coolants. That’s a lot of work for a 2 person lab with a single mill.

Which zirc do you use? If I were in your position I would get the 5x400 and wet mill the 2 types of zirconia.

I’m partial to mihm Vogt, we still have our first one purchased in 2013, and it has run over 3000 cycles with no issues but regular maintenance cleaning elements. We have 2 more purchased 2 and 3 years ago with similar results and on track to do just as much!
 
S

sirmorty

Active Member
Full Member
Milling Emax is a lost cause in my opinion.
It uses to many tools. They are expensive and don't last long enough.

It's way to expensive of a material as well.

Milling wax and pressing is the way to go.

I have the capability to mill Emax but luckily for me it's very rare that I need to do it.

That's just my experience. I'm sure others have found a way to do it but for me it just isn't worth it.
 
Jason D

Jason D

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Milling Emax is a lost cause in my opinion.
It uses to many tools. They are expensive and don't last long enough.

It's way to expensive of a material as well.

Milling wax and pressing is the way to go.

I have the capability to mill Emax but luckily for me it's very rare that I need to do it.

That's just my experience. I'm sure others have found a way to do it but for me it just isn't worth it.
Not at all

I completely agree - it’s just ivoclar trying to hang onto a rapidly dwindling niche.

We do almost 3x as much high trans zirc as we do emax and it’s dropping steadily...it had a good run but I almost never recommend emax anymore - just better options and more economical solutions out there, it’s not worth paying the premium for a 20 year old product.
 
brayks

brayks

Well-Known Member
Sponsors
Full Member
We're the world's #1 distributor of ARUM Mills which includes our or enhanced ARUM Versamill's.

I have to say by the time you set up a 5X300 for wet milling you are pretty close to a 5X400 which is a stronger machine in a variety of ways and why we don't market the 300 in a wet milling configuration.

Please message me if you are interested in learning more.

We are just about to launch a couple of exciting promotions involving our 5X200, 5X400 and 5X300D.

I was thinking about giving the DLN brethren a heads up before it's announced...
 
tehnik

tehnik

Active Member
Full Member
I’m partial to mihm Vogt, we still have our first one purchased in 2013, and it has run over 3000 cycles with no issues but regular maintenance cleaning elements. We have 2 more purchased 2 and 3 years ago with similar results and on track to do just as much!
How are you doing maintenance cleaning of the elemets? Oxidation firing?
 
Jason D

Jason D

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Yes and very occasionally glass bead air abrasion.
 
tehnik

tehnik

Active Member
Full Member
What is the reason for cleaning if not coloring before sintering?
 
Jason D

Jason D

Well-Known Member
Full Member
All things require maintenance :)

We do cleaning cycles alternating weeks and remove and clean elements very occasionally, probably once a year.

We run about 60-70 cycles a month on each oven, so maintaining and cleaning are important.
 
JMN

JMN

Christian Member
Staff member
Full Member
What are you referring to?

We do not do any presinter shading, it’s too inconsistent and you cannot have inconsistency if you want to grow
How do you see it as inconsitent if it is done with the same technique and matterial every time?
 
Jason D

Jason D

Well-Known Member
Full Member
How do you see it as inconsitent if it is done with the same technique and matterial every time?
Thickness of material, absorption properties (Pontics absorbing more colorant than copings for example) proper mixing and particle distribution in the colorant etc. if brushing vs dipping no two brushstrokes will carry the same amount, also messy and wasteful. Exceedingly difficult to scale and have different techs maintain same results.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JMN
OP
P

Pictodent-SW18

Member
Full Member
Hi and thanks for your replies,

I'd love to move more clients to translucent Zirconia but many request emax for bonding reasons... in fact we are currently somehow only picking up customers who are diehard emax fans

We're the world's #1 distributor of ARUM Mills which includes our or enhanced ARUM Versamill's.

I have to say by the time you set up a 5X300 for wet milling you are pretty close to a 5X400 which is a stronger machine in a variety of ways and why we don't market the 300 in a wet milling configuration.

Please message me if you are interested in learning more.

We are just about to launch a couple of exciting promotions involving our 5X200, 5X400 and 5X300D.

I was thinking about giving the DLN brethren a heads up before it's announced...
Hi Brakys I'd be very interested to learn more about it - I can see that the 5X400 is a step up from the 300, but why would the 300 be less suitable to handle emax? We're not planning to do metal anytime soon, and it's still a good chunk more of our finest £££'s to invest - a good part of the budget for a sintering furnace
 
brayks

brayks

Well-Known Member
Sponsors
Full Member
Hi and thanks for your replies,

I'd love to move more clients to translucent Zirconia but many request emax for bonding reasons... in fact we are currently somehow only picking up customers who are diehard emax fans


Hi Brakys I'd be very interested to learn more about it - I can see that the 5X400 is a step up from the 300, but why would the 300 be less suitable to handle emax? We're not planning to do metal anytime soon, and it's still a good chunk more of our finest £££'s to invest - a good part of the budget for a sintering furnace
I am guessing from your reference to spending pounds sterling as opposed to dollars, you are located in the UK.
I am not sure how the 5X300 machines are marketed in the UK but in the US the price of a "wet/dry" 5X400 and "wet/dry 5X300" is the same.

The 5X400 utilized NEMA 23 motors while the 5X300 utilizes NEMA 17 motors. While not always the case (and not going into the gory deails),the NEMA 23 motors on the 5X400 are capable of delivering more torque and are a bit faster than the 5X300 resulting in higher quality restoations and faster cycle times.
I wouldn't necessarily say the 300 is less suitable than the 400 for milling e.max however e.max does require more torque from the spindle motor and the drive system which may or may not cause the motor to miss steps during machining.

Although both machines run in closed-loop drive system, the missed steps are sensed and accounted for to address accuracy issues, the cutter associated load changes can cause changes in stock to be machined, which introduces vibration/chatter resulting in lower quality restorations.

So for the basically the same price, I believe the 400 is a better choice as it reduces the aforementiond issues and does provide you with the opportunity to expand to cutting abutments should your business change over the next few years and you have a desire to machine abutments.
 
Guest Room
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • Chat Bot:
    Room has been pruned!
    Chat Bot: Room has been pruned!
    Top Bottom