Looking for a milling machine please help

[Raffi M.]

I currently own a single person dental lab.(3 years)
Zi demand is on the rise and to be honest I would love to be able to mill my own zirconia.
Having to wait 3 or 4 days... sometimes having shipping problems... I would rather invest in a milling unit.

That being said I have been doing a good amount of research.

Roland DWX 50 - Great reviews all around... I just dont see it as a heavy duty machine.
I like some weight to any machine i would buy.
Call me paranoid but not sure how much work i would be able to get out of it (might be wrong)


Zirkon Zahn M1 - Also heard good reviews on it. Went to check it out at a trade show.. looked like it was built to last (not too sure about their

Imes icore 250 450 : I would ideally want the 450 because of its build and the fact that i would be able to mill wet and dry and its got a good weight to it. All my Zi is done with the 450 where i outsource it and gives amazing results.

Kavo everest : Great machine once u figure out how to open the system. Huge machine with many capabilities.
If i could find a used one i would definitely jump on it!

All this being said this is the dilemma..
right now as is i would be fine with a dry mill like the roland dwx 50
But I dont know whats in store for me later on.
Will i mill for other labs... will i need wet and dry for my e max or maybe even titanium abutments.


So I could be investing in a icore 450 but financially not sure if i could take the risk even if production is on an uprising.
Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.
I have been a lab owner for only 3 years and have no idea what the future has in store for me...
One things for sure... A milling machine will definitely be a part of it


Thanks for your help

 

[Raffi M.]

oh... and I design anywhere from 5 to 15 Zi /emax a week using my 3shape

 

[CoolHandLuke]

why not a versamill ?

 

[Raffi M.]

hmmm. why not? definitely not crossing that off my list
isnt it 85000 tho?.. its actually one of the machines i havent looked into
I'm guessing you have a versamill?

 

[CoolHandLuke]

yes. get in touch with @brayks and believe me when i say these guys know that machine inside out.

 

[pjd cdt]

What's your budget?


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[Raffi M.]

its not about a budget its more about taking an informed decision... do i spend 30 000 to get a dry mill or do i spend 85000 to get a mill that off the bat will be able to do more... at my stage in the lab biz its a tough decision.. what do you guys think?

 

[Raffi M.]

also not easy making a decision when you havent seen the quality each machine has to offer...

 

[RJS8669]

I've got an Origin 5000 you can have for $32k plus shipping. B&D just did a full service on it and its running like a top. Its wet/dry (Zi / Ti / eMax /PMMA) and I have the abutment module if that's of any interest. PM me if you are interested.

 

[Raffi M.]

hmmm interesting... ill definitely let you know

 

[Raffi M.]

just dont know much about origin mills... ill read into it

 

[TheLabGuy]

5-15 zirconium per week doesn't leave you much ROI (Return on investment). Of course when you get a milling machine I'm sure you'll be doing more with it but you have to ask yourself if it will pay itself off. Not sure an 80K investment would, I'm just throwing that out there although you said you're not caring about the money...but I would.

 

[Raffi M.]

True... took that into account... most i can afford with my ROI is a dwx 50.
But I would rather lose a bit of money in the beggining but at least ill be controlling production vs having to wait on shipping time..
Wrong way to think? let me know

 

[pjd cdt]

You should look into rjs's offer. Six months ago I bought a wieland mini over a dwx50. Just finished my best year ever. Having a mill was a big part of that. The weiland mini has been great, works like it should and support has been top notch. That being said the origin 5000 is bigger mill with more possibilities. Origin also has a new table top that looks very interesting,both are made by yenadent. And don't forget to budget for high quality suction and air you are going to need both. Any mill out there runs best clean and dry(air).


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[RJS8669]

You should look into rjs's offer. Six months ago I bought a wieland mini over a dwx50. Just finished my best year ever. Having a mill was a big part of that. The weiland mini has been great, works like it should and support has been top notch. That being said the origin 5000 is bigger mill with more possibilities. Origin also has a new table top that looks very interesting,both are made by yenadent. And don't forget to budget for high quality suction and air you are going to need both. Any mill out there runs best clean and dry(air).


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I will throw in the suction unit that came with the mill for free - just pay the shipping.

 

[rich green]

Some really helpful information for you here.

Rjs offer is a pretty good one. The new Origin mill, spoken of by someone else is the Proteus5. It is a 5 axis mill. The spindle on the Proteus is a higher power spindle than the 5000.
The Proteus is somewhat more expensive than the Roland, but is also more robust meaning longer useful life.
However, Rob is correct in so far as ROI is concerned. I understand your concerns in re turn around times and shipping issues, but until you are doing 5 millable units a day its tough to justify a mill. If you want to see the output of an Origin mill you could call B&D as they do some outsource milling, I'm sure they would be more than willing to discuss what could be done to help you regarding turn around time. And if you do get he 5000, it might be smart to establish communication with them up front as you may need training and support. Its a big decision with lots to consider. Best of luck.

 

[Raffi M.]

Looking into the origin as we speak... Just going to look in to the service the provide for training seeing that I'm in Montreal Canada.. Might have to spend a little extra

Thanks for your help everyone and please let. Me know if you guys have any other suggestions.

 

[rich green]

Lots of good info for you here.
Rjs offer is a pretty good one.
The Origin mill someone else referred to is the Proteus5. It is a 5 axis mill with a higher power spindle and other robust parts making it similar to but slightly higher powered than the 5000. It is a little smaller than the 5000 meaning a somewhat smaller footprint, but more like a desk top on heavy steroids.It is somewhat more expensive than the Roland.
Rob is right however. Your ROI is shaky until you are doing 5 millable units a day.
If you want to see the output of an Origin mill, the parent company B&D Dental does some out source milling. You could contact them and I am sure they will be willing to work with you on turn around times etc. If you do get the 5000 it might be wise to establish communication with B&D now as you may need support and training when you get it. If you do call them ask for Ben Booth, he's in support and really knowledgeable

 

[labtek]

I've got an Origin 5000 you can have for $32k plus shipping. B&D just did a full service on it and its running like a top. Its wet/dry (Zi / Ti / eMax /PMMA) and I have the abutment module if that's of any interest. PM me if you are interested.

Is this the same mill that you were discussing a while back that just quit working? What was the eventual problem with it? why did it just stop working on you? Did the final repair actually cost the $5000 they were quoting you?

After using both the Origin 5000 and the wieland select. what are the pros and cons of both and if you were not selling the Origin 5000, which machine would you recommend someone buying based on your past experiences between the two machines, systems, support and efficiency to mill inhouse?

 

[neila]

If all you want to mill is Zirconia, wax and PMMA look no further than the DWX 50. We have 4 of them and they run all day and are rock solid. Of all the mills we have (8 in total) they are the easiest to use and maintain. The fact that they seem lightweight was a concern to me when we got our first one. The fact that we invested in another 3 should tell you what I think of them. The Imes is a bigger investment and can do lithium disilicate but it is not a reality to change from wet to dry. Contact CAP if you want the best support and info.