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jcbdmd

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I was also interested in who among labs possibly on here might be approached to subcontract for the work. If they are taking this nation wide at all of these trade shows no way in hell they can do all that work with a few NY local labs subcontracted.

I would think that you guys might not divulge to one another if you accepted to be a subcontracted lab, but I would think if anyone on here told them Hell No! it might get shared on here. From a lab perspective, how attractive IS subcontracting (and not having to deal with my impression was perfect Dr.'s).

I intend to share on here what we Dentists think about/ go through with this model while I try it (even though this type of bulk quantity vendor lock-in is not the type of lab services I am after).

I guess it's just the scientist in me, I want to poke it with a stick and see how it responds... :)
 
CoolHandLuke

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we used to have a user here named Tom, he was a lab that subcontracted everything overseas. multimillionaire at time of his death a few years ago. some of us were blind jealous.

as long as you know the right people, subcontracting can be a wonderful thing for your pocket, and complaints may as well fall on deaf ears. there will be 10 more clients gained for every one lost.

in general though, many here do not look favourably on people like Tom.
 
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I would assume most here would definitely frown upon overseas / offshore subcontracting. They aren't held to the same standards are they, don't operate in the same reality we do.

But what about lab to lab, like some who offer full service but get their frameworks made by another lab.

Would subcontracting with something like this be attractive to smaller labs who need work to survive. I am for anything that keeps smaller labs in business... I am a small 4 person dental office. It's us against the Aspen and Heartland Dentals of the world.

I have heard that the CerecConnect Lab and other similar ideas have not been very successful, but that's sirona who want to sell us the scanner and make you by the dentsply lab products...
 
CoolHandLuke

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theres a lot of that in the industry, its how businesses like Panthera rose to such success. it is not uncommon to see full service labs rely on milling partners like argen or alien milling or panthera for various products.

even mid size labs when they reach a certain size need to keep machines going so offer milling to other local labs at lower cost, as a competitive advantage.
 
Affinity

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This is why I said they will be bought out in 5 years.
Theres no way they can fill the demand they are trying to create with actual techs to design the crowns. If you look at the careers page, theres about 30 jobs on there, and only one listing for a cad designer. Everything else is marketing and sales. The work will inevitably be sent offshore because as everyone knows there arent many schools training anyone for CAD, or anything in dental technology, and if you do go to school, you sure as hell arent going to work for the margins they want. Drs are fooling themselves thinking they are getting a deal with a $65 emax crown, they are throwing the baby out with the bath water (best I could do). Labs are in the same position, working 2-3x as hard to make the same amount of money as was standard not even 10 years ago.
Dandys business model is so flawed its not even worth discussing. Maybe they will get an IOS in every office (doubtful),but who will do the work? They are a middle man, supplying you with a scanner, but not a real lab, so they cant produce work as fast as they can give away scanners with other peoples money.
Even if you provide a 'network' of labs to send to, youre still limited to a very small number of labs.. for their model to work, of every office having a dandy scanner, every lab would have to be part of their network. Yes this means glidewell of course, because they provide maybe 1/3 of the lab cases in this country? So who will leverage them out of the game? 3shape? Culp? Other offshore interests that can email your case and have it designed in India, send it back at light speed to a domestic milling center and the Dr never knows the difference? Same as customer service for most large companies.
Say youre a small rural lab like mine, and all of my Drs now have a dandyscan.. if they want to send to me, how does dandy make any money if they give away the scanner? They have software that limits who you send it to, unless you join their network, with prices negotiated by them. Middlemen scum, trying to get rich off a piece of my pie, and your lab too.. trying to be the amazon of dental. Major flaw of capitalism is letting all the money flow to a few or just one, who then crush the rest of the economy to serve their interests, which is getting wealthier. Nobody will have a choice, when there is only one option. Why would anyone desire that type of monopoly in dentistry?

Drs, look at it this way: Have you ever in your career, had a company, even a lab, offer to pay for all of your impression material? Even GW doesnt do that. Have you ever signed a BMW lease, with no payment, so long as you bring the car to the dealer for service?
Will you ever hear from a dandy lab rep on DLN? Hell no. When you do talk to a rep, will they even have any dental experience? the glass door reviews say that it was a great place to work, except for the understanding of dentistry it requires. Whose dental expertise will they buy, or who with dental expertise will buy them out?
 
TheLabGuy

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I was also interested in who among labs possibly on here might be approached to subcontract for the work. If they are taking this nation wide at all of these trade shows no way in hell they can do all that work with a few NY local labs subcontracted.

I would think that you guys might not divulge to one another if you accepted to be a subcontracted lab, but I would think if anyone on here told them Hell No! it might get shared on here. From a lab perspective, how attractive IS subcontracting (and not having to deal with my impression was perfect Dr.'s).

I intend to share on here what we Dentists think about/ go through with this model while I try it (even though this type of bulk quantity vendor lock-in is not the type of lab services I am after).

I guess it's just the scientist in me, I want to poke it with a stick and see how it responds... :)
I've turned a bunch of subcontracts down recently. Here is my angst...I feel you get what you want as a Doc when you can speak to the fellar making it. No middle man per say. I'm swamped with work, and I imagine so is many of my lab gurus on here so why let someone else dictate your workload, speak for you and determine your prices. Maybe this business model might work with labs that suck at the business side but I don't see this going very far...it might put a dent in Jimmy's pocket though but not the small/medium labs out there that enjoy that personal communication between each other. Please let us know how it goes, very interested in your perspective and thanks for sharing.
 
Affinity

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Im also swamped, turning work away.. and I dont do any digital impressions. Dont let marketing dictate our industry or your business plan. Technology is great, but it does not make you a better dentist or technician, even if it is 'easier' to scan rather than impress.
 
JMN

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Im also swamped, turning work away.. and I dont do any digital impressions. Dont let marketing dictate our industry or your business plan. Technology is great, but it does not make you a better dentist or technician, even if it is 'easier' to scan rather than impress.
The feedback I've gotten is not as much that it is easier to do, but easier to teach. This is the office lead DDS philosophy of all I've asked. Not a large sample, but an interesting way to see.
 
Affinity

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If youre a practicing dentist and havent mastered how to take an impression, I wonder what else you havent mastered....
 
JMN

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If youre a practicing dentist and havent mastered how to take an impression, I wonder what else you havent mastered....
You know most have someone else do it.
 
rkm rdt

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Im also swamped, turning work away.. and I dont do any digital impressions. Dont let marketing dictate our industry or your business plan. Technology is great, but it does not make you a better dentist or technician, even if it is 'easier' to scan rather than impress.
Communication makes you a better dentist and technician.
 
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We were contacted by this company (Dandy) to see if we were interested in doing some of their overflow work. I'm Busy, said no. I think this may be their business model. Not sure how much if any of their work they actually do themselves.
 
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I know Dandy's prices and don't see how any lab can make $$ doing their overflow work.
Dandy sells fcz @ $99.00 and the overflow lab receives ??? Hmmmm2
Can I see a show of hands of labs who want to produce fcz for less than $99. so Dandy can make a profit. Who wants to help Dandy out since there paying for all those IOS scanners given to doctors. Laugh
 
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What was sent was a TRIOS 3, a cart, and a brand new Dell Laptop with the mid-grade Nvidia 2060 RTX, so should be OK there for 2-3 years of 3Shape updates.

First case with Dandy was a set of bleaching trays, an NTI, and a Tanner appliance (lower Michigan for you Michies?). All on yours truly.

Grand total $399. No discount for the Dr.'s mouth(yet?).

Will let you guys know what comes back from their lab in about 9 business days. I do a lot of splint therapy, and could see IOS being a decent part of my lab bill each month.

Apparently invoice ($1000 min remember) is sent on the 12th, which only gives me a few more clinic days to use it or lose it. I will ask them about this short first month, I can assure you.

First implant crown I may use it on is scheduled next Monday, I will probably take implant level impression as per my reg, and use their scan body and do the case "side-by-side" with my normal lab.

We will see.

I can already feel where I may have some issues using the materials I prefer to use (like Argen HT+ or Cube One ML). I am used to paying extra sometimes if a lab doesn't offer, but I didn't see much customization of the script beyond asking for it in the comments section.

My journal will continue.
 
Affinity

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Where is the lab? Is there pictures of it? Im willing to bet its a network of indys not 'their' lab... Nothing wrong with that, just curious. You might get a different lab every time you send out, if you dont use your regular lab.
 
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I expect it will definitely be a "network" lab, and I expect this will be my first complaint, when there is something more complex or the first time I get "less-than-I-asked." "Just who am I working with?"

One of the earliest questions in this post, I wanted to know if any of you guys had turned down being in their network.

I would hope that somewhere some small mom and pop lab that has been struggling is the network lab, helping keep them afloat. I also hope this ocean-front condo I just bought over in Atlanta is everything the brochure promises.
 
TheLabGuy

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I wouldn't accept an offer...they want me to charge $99 for a zirconia crown and then they take their portion from there...which I imagine is close to 20%. I never got that far... @charles007 you know what dandy's percentage is?
 

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