Dandy

[jcbdmd]

So I know from lurking here over the years that it's been tried before, but I just wanted to post up here that I am evaluating the "Lab provided IOS" model first hand.

Company is Dandy (https://www.meetdandy.com/),and in my brief discussion with their Lab director, it looks like they are doing in-house work and are also contracting out to regional labs to do some?

3Shape Trios 3 scanners are given to the practices, they have a custom software I think that uses 3Shapes lab partners, no commitment, minimum monthly lab bill or return the scanner.

Interested if any of the NYC regional labs have anything to share about them.

My office staff has training at the end of the month, will let you know if this ends up being more than just a fraction of my lab bill. No-penalty contract/agreement says I agree to make them my primary lab (and they will be for the things I intend to use it with).

I am ultimately interested in "open ecosystem" IOSes (Medit i700, etc.) but haven't invested yet, and I am hoping this is going to be a try before you buy (especially for my staff).

 

[rkm rdt]

Sounds like they took my idea to a new level.

I predicted this years ago . He who controls the file gets paid.

My lab has been doing this for 7 years now. The only difference is that I never asked for a commitment.

 

[rkm rdt]

They claim to be a game changer.

 

[Affinity]

No pictures of any work or techs on their page? The gimmick is just 'lending' out IOS to get work? Sounds like another brooklyn startup with a nice IPO.
" Dandy started out as Orthly, a small company started by two college students in 2017" Wonder what lab school they went to? Theyve been in business 5 years, probably never made a crown. If gimmicks are all it takes to get work, I can wear a clown suit and lose money offering everyone who asks a free IOS.

 

[rkm rdt]

"If gimmicks are all it takes to get work, I can wear a clown suit and lose money offering everyone who asks a free IOS."

I find the hardest part is driving to the office with those big shoes.

 

[rkm rdt]

The dr would have to make a commitment so Dandy can cover the scanner purchase.

 

[Affinity]

The only difference with this company and a real lab is the venture capital that buys everyone a new IOS. This will be the death of our industry and the further promotion of cost-saving, time-saving .

RKM, Im not criticizing your model, this is something different entirely. Too early to get too agitated, gotta go get some coffee.

 

[CatamountRob]

In the old days it was hookers and booze, now it’s scanners.

 

[rkm rdt]

The only difference with this company and a real lab is the venture capital that buys everyone a new IOS. This will be the death of our industry and the further promotion of cost-saving, time-saving .

RKM, Im not criticizing your model, this is something different entirely. Too early to get too agitated, gotta go get some coffee.

I know you're not.
I'm surprised it took so long for someone to do this.

 

[Affinity]

Exactly Rob, this is like a gas station giving you a car if you only buy their gas.. except the gas is 70 octane, and $8/gallon.

This is a marketing gimmick. 3shape, medit, anyone will let you demo a unit for free, with training. Without being locked into a lab run by biz college students, buying scanners with other peoples VC money, hoping to get a piece of the 200 billion dollar aligner pie.
This is nothing new, nothing special, their website sucks, testimonials are probably paid for. Next...

 

[rkm rdt]

So I know from lurking here over the years that it's been tried before, but I just wanted to post up here that I am evaluating the "Lab provided IOS" model first hand.

Company is Dandy (https://www.meetdandy.com/),and in my brief discussion with their Lab director, it looks like they are doing in-house work and are also contracting out to regional labs to do some?

3Shape Trios 3 scanners are given to the practices, they have a custom software I think that uses 3Shapes lab partners, no commitment, minimum monthly lab bill or return the scanner.

Interested if any of the NYC regional labs have anything to share about them.

My office staff has training at the end of the month, will let you know if this ends up being more than just a fraction of my lab bill. No-penalty contract/agreement says I agree to make them my primary lab (and they will be for the things I intend to use it with).

I am ultimately interested in "open ecosystem" IOSes (Medit i700, etc.) but haven't invested yet, and I am hoping this is going to be a try before you buy (especially for my staff).

So the commitment part is where I would focus my questions.
What recourse do I have if I'm not happy with the quality of work I receive?
What will the training look like? recurring training ?
How long is the commitment? scanner buy back?

 

[rkm rdt]

In the old days it was hookers and booze, now it’s scanners.

and boats

Freedom Boat Club

 

[Affinity]

Try before you buy is one thing, and when you meet Mr Dandy and tell him that is your goal beforehand and what the costs would be, it might be more like a test drive than a timeshare. I would love to hear what type of contract they have you sign to take on this loaner IOS. Or how many other Drs used that particular one before you, maybe youre liable for repair, like a rental car that you sign was in ok condition when you take it.

Im trying to gain some perspective here.. what does the Dr gain from Mr Dandy, other than being locked in to their lab, which there is no pictures of, nor of a lab manager, staff, or actual work. Run by college students with VC $.
Some Drs find it useful or necessary to meet who is making something going in their patients mouth, see a portfolio of work.. other Drs send out thousands of weekly mailers to curb their massive turnover, giveaway 70" flat screen TVs and buy their supplies on amazon to save money. The latter sounds like a dandy man. (or woman)

 

[Affinity]

"Dandy is a business-in-a-box for dentists. Our vision is to become the operating system for every dental office in America by leading the transition to digital dentistry for the $200 billion industry. Headquartered in New York City, Dandy is backed by the world's leading venture capital investors."

Mark. They will be bought out in 5 years.

 

[jcbdmd]

What recourse do I have if I'm not happy with the quality of work I receive?

IANAL but according to their agreement, I just send the scanner back "no questions asked"

What will the training look like? recurring training ?

Training on how to get an intraoral scan I presume (we blocked off 4 hours)

How long is the commitment? scanner buy back?

No mention anywhere of me committing to anything (except making them my "primary" digital lab, for what? who knows, $1000 per month lab bill pre-pay) or who owns the scanner, just "if our quality cannot meet your expectations, just return our equipment" paraphrasing

$1000 a month lab bill is not extreme for them to loan me a scanner.

I still trim my own dies, design my own implant surgical guides, take my own CBCT scans instead of staff, and sometimes mount my own cases on the articulator (when I don't have to present it to the patient, lol). So I am not the dentist for this kind of lab exactly.

HOWEVER, reading the fine print as much as I could I could not see any reason not to try it (other than giving them my credit card number for the prepayment of $1000 minimum lab services).

I will report back.

 

[rkm rdt]

Try before you buy is one thing, and when you meet Mr Dandy and tell him that is your goal beforehand and what the costs would be, it might be more like a test drive than a timeshare. I would love to hear what type of contract they have you sign to take on this loaner IOS. Or how many other Drs used that particular one before you, maybe youre liable for repair, like a rental car that you sign was in ok condition when you take it.

Im trying to gain some perspective here.. what does the Dr gain from Mr Dandy, other than being locked in to their lab, which there is no pictures of, nor of a lab manager, staff, or actual work. Run by college students with VC $.
Some Drs find it useful or necessary to meet who is making something going in their patients mouth, see a portfolio of work.. other Drs send out thousands of weekly mailers to curb their massive turnover, giveaway 70" flat screen TVs and buy their supplies on amazon to save money. The latter sounds like a dandy man. (or woman)

A Trios will cost you around 700+/month on a 4-5 year lease.
Therefore the office will have to send a minimum amount to cover this and profit.

edit, just saw your post 1000/mnth sounds about right but little profit at that. They are expecting much more obviously.
I personally don't see an issue if you have a simple opt out .

As I said before, I'm surprised it took this long for someone to offer this.

 

[jcbdmd]

I am actually guilty of being intrigued by the business model more than the actual lab product, I am also sort of testing it out for a group other dentists and reporting back whether their company might be a good "endorsed provider (of free IOSes)" of the group.

I still use my local lab that my dad helped start behind his dental office in the 80s for my 90% C&B, so as I said I am not the dentist for these guys, but I really posted on here because they apparently DO subcontract out to small regional labs and I was hoping for some background.

BTW, I sometimes also use the "free crown offer" labs who advertise a lot send out, to do free treatment for some of my patients who are more financially strained. I intended to try them for a night guard or two, an econo-crown I am giving away rather than redoing a MODLB(XYZ) amalgacrown, and maybe to do some digital wax-ups, so not a threat to Dr. - Lab relationship yet guys.

 

[jcbdmd]

Interesting post for those of you who dare to go to dentaltown.

Dentaltown - Where The Dental Community Lives®

Dentaltown is an interactive healthcare community working to connect dentists to their peers, dental service providers and manufacturers. Dentaltown has the most comprehensive online dental collection of dental forums, clinical cases, continuing education (CE) courses, magazine articles...

www.dentaltown.com

We will see.

 

[rkm rdt]

I am actually guilty of being intrigued by the business model more than the actual lab product, I am also sort of testing it out for a group other dentists and reporting back whether their company might be a good "endorsed provider (of free IOSes)" of the group.

I still use my local lab that my dad helped start behind his dental office in the 80s for my 90% C&B, so as I said I am not the dentist for these guys, but I really posted on here because they apparently DO subcontract out to small regional labs and I was hoping for some background.

BTW, I sometimes also use the "free crown offer" labs who advertise a lot send out, to do free treatment for some of my patients who are more financially strained. I intended to try them for a night guard or two, an econo-crown I am giving away rather than redoing a MODLB(XYZ) amalgacrown, and maybe to do some digital wax-ups, so not a threat to Dr. - Lab relationship yet guys.

Let us know how they do.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

A Trios will cost you around 700+/month on a 4-5 year lease.
Therefore the office will have to send a minimum amount to cover this and profit.

edit, just saw your post 1000/mnth sounds about right but little profit at that. They are expecting much more obviously.
I personally don't see an issue if you have a simple opt out .

As I said before, I'm surprised it took this long for someone to offer this.

ehh, i mean while you are technically correct any clinic with 3+ clinicians could easily split this bill doing one crown a month each or one clear tray treatment flat out.

that's their target demographic first, i'd think. multi clinic offices.

then after that all the smaller fish.

targeting those rich clinics is like targeting a consumer for a 5$/month subscription to some sort of media service like Patreon or Amazon.

with investment paying off in fixed terms like 4 or 5 year financing, clinics may no longer need to pay the trios bill but they will probably be grandfathered into a loyalty discount program that still allows dr dandy to make profit on his 30$ crowns, and gives clinics a large upper hand when it comes to growth and expenditure.

this is something i've told to nearly every lab i worked for, to start selling or leasing trioses or other ios to partners with terms like this. by far not a new idea, and when implemented properly, can mean huge *long term* growth. its most labs that don't want to spend 500k up front to buy 10 units and wait until 5 years to ROI back to 0, only to repeat the process. its not the equipment that you ROI to profit, its the crowns and the *millions* of them you make as a byproduct of initial investment.

the same labs gawk at a 100k mill not realizing the ridiculous ROI they get with it.