D. Sign Porcelain

[DMC]

As you guys may see, a lot of Red is added to the shades for the 3D converrsion. I was recently told to PLEASE add more Red to the Zirconia copings from a Technician trained in Europe, and relocated here to work for BayView Dental in Va Beach. He is a very picky Ceramist, and pointed out to me the need of Red Chroma in almost every situation. Many materials lack this. We can, and have added this to match the 3D shades with the Lava product. I don't know how 3M feels about this, but we do offer custom shades and split shades for Zirconia. We use the Zircon Zahn color liquids for the Pratteau stuff, as accents on top or mixed with the 3M shades. They offer three Gingival colors and a Violet. The darkest Ginvigal painted on the c ervical 1/3 looks great on any case.

Thanks to Nader from Austria for the request!

We also have a Grey stain used as accent color, Brown, Orange, Violet, and Flourescent Chit with Keebler Elf Magic. It glows under a Blacklight!!

 

[TheLabGuy]

The red color is from the pulp (the blood in the nerve) of natural teeth. That's what we are trying to match. I've been to Bay View Dental Lab in Chesapeake, VA. VERY nice lab and they have some serious talent there. However, at 800.00 to 1000.00 a crown, I'd hope so, well that was at least what Buddy (owner) told me. He pretty much exclusively recruits overseas for master ceramists and such. Japan has worked out good for him in the past.

 

[TheLabGuy]

Liquid.........

Hey folks,
I've been playing with liquids for d.Sign porcelain lately and wowzer, I think I found one. It's much cheaper than Optimum 2 and I really like it. I actually had less tearing, and while using the brush technique, the porcelain held really nice. You all know I work out of the bottles so the brush and liquid are crucial to making a nice build. The liquid I'm talking about and raving on about is Line liquid, found in your white Zahn book on page 487. It's great stuff if you're using the brush technique....Hope that helps you.

 

[labdude]

One of the things Rob tried to remove was his pictures here, like the d-sign to 3d chart.
We own it now, it is there forever to share, and help level the playing field for everybody.

 

[PavlosPamborides]

Hi guys.
Firstly, where has the chart disappeared to? Come on!!
Now I've been using d-sign lately with a vita vacuumat 4000 furnace with amazing results! what kind of furnaces do you guys use? I also own a programat furnace which in my experience blows. The vacumat gives me no or minimal tears while they are pretty much guaranteed with the ivoclar equipment. The shrinkage basically gives me a smaller crown so with some compensation for that and minimal corrections in the glaze I can pull off one-bake crowns (filling the interdental spaces on bridges is still tricky though...)
I pin these results on two things: 1) the lift furnace gives a progessive drying process and better temp control and vacuum. 2) I do absolutely no condensation and keep the material rather wet, which is what ivoclar advises. 3) I trick I learned from a greek technician. When the lift lowers the temp drops about 30celsius. The heating coils then switch on to bring the muffle back to base temp. DO NOT place your work on the muffle during this time! Let it rise to base temp and only when the heating coils are off do you put in the job.

 

[charles007]

Which modeling liquid are you using to not get the tearing. Also what is the low temp, rate of climb and drying time, high temp.....
I gave up on Design because of the pulling at the margins with the Dsign years ago... The only thing I did learn about design is, keep it wet and use a lower temp than Ivoclar's recommended low temp......
I now have the Programat P500, should I give design a second try.......

 

[labdude]

To All,
I replaced the chart for you.
Here is a link to other charts, which also includes the one in question...
http://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/f4/vita-conversion-chart-2331/

Rob has (had) an agenda to change the site (DLN) to what "he" thinks it should be. Interesting, not his site....some how he thought he owned it.
He felt that China was going to take over the U.S. through this site and its sharing of info.....
May he enjoy talking wiith himself now.

 

[CatamountRob]

I dont believe the chart in question is there. Rob (not that Rob).

 

[PavlosPamborides]

hey Charles 007,

I disagree with lower temperatures, higher if anything... High temp will give you stronger colour and better translucency. I keep my temps as high as possible i.e. as long as the shade and shape are not ruined.
The firing program I described works only for furnaces with a lift e.g. vita vacumat series. I also own a programat 100 which I don't like much because the drying process isn't logical in my opinion. I mean the muffle temp is actually dropping during closing time... with lift furnaces you have a set temp in the head and you control the drying process by controlling the distance of your job to that head. On the other hand the argument is that with programat furnaces you have a longer heating time for the ceramic which gives a better firing. I also heard a lot of good things about your furnace but unfortunately I cannot advise you on a firing program, maybe a 9 min closing time?

 

[charles007]

Pavlos
Lowering the start temp was suggested by the technical techs at Ivoclar for design and the Vita staff with the 900 porcelain. I was also told to shorten the dry time and also told to increase the dry time..........At the time that I used dsign, firing wet seemed to be the very best tip...... Wish I knew about sprinkling margin powder over the wet opaque to prevent the pulling at the margin.
I heard the same story about temp dropping created porcelain tearing- pulling with older Ivoclar furnaces..

 

[PavlosPamborides]

Charles007,
Lowering the start temp is very good practice. I thought before that you meant the end temp... I don't know what to say about drying times, I guess the liquid in use is a deciding factor; the oilier the liquid the longer drying time. I believe the important thing is not to shock-dry your ceramic. You will also notice what other people have said in previous posts: a balanced metal support will give you much better firing results.

 

[charles007]

Pavlos
Which brand of modeling liquid, please don't say distilled water !!!
Please pm me your drying-firing numbers.......

Charles

 

[AL1]

Is anyone using Shofu Halo porcelain? I have used Creation for years and really like the way shofu fires but the shades arent quite right. Not much shrinkage or steam tears. If you are and have some tips that would be great. Creation is a little touchy but pretty good shades.

 

[charles007]

AL1
I use the Creation and Noritake,,,etc long list. PM me with your problems and firing temps etc with Creation.. I'm sure the Halo probably will work with a little fine tuning of the temps if they are on the light side...... Also might help to clean your furnace, especially if you are using a silver alloy.....

Charles

 

[AL1]

I am going to need a new furnace pretty soon my Flagship is dieing a slow death. What is good and why. Dont need it to press I have a 600 pressing furnace. I like the clam shell concept because the work doesnt move but its a bit pricey. Also anyone have any thoughts on the type of muffle. Anyone heard of Shenpaz ovens. I think they are big in Europe. Harris discount sells them.

 

[Al.]

Flagship? You mean the Jelenko Flagship? Mine died 20 yrs ago. It was my first automatic furnace. Then I got their up grade the Admiral.

 

[AL1]

Yes, I mean the Jelenko Flagship

 

[Al.]

Yes, I mean the Jelenko Flagship

You must be an old timer.
I loved that furnace. It was the cats meow of its time, I think they had Star Trek in mind when they designed it.
But towards the end I swore I would never buy a furnace with a firing tray that raised into the muffle again. It started bouncing crowns off my trays and every once in a while the muffle would close on them and mash the copings. I tore it apart trying to fix it but never could.
Same thing happened with the Admiral.

I bought the Ney Centurian furnaces the Q50 a Q100 and now the QEX and have had them for many years with few problems. My original Q50 needs a new stick on frount display.They have a quartz spiral muffle and I never have had to change them.

 

[charles007]

Little AL1
I agree with the Master, go with a Ivoclar furnace, no more crowns falling off, and more as your furnace ages...... I've got a Jelfire sitting in the corner gathering dust because the lift is broken. Its so old it, does the shake rattle and roll and makes funny noises at the same time, when it last worked!!
Whipmix pro 100 is known for being a workhorse......think they improved the lift years ago.
Shenpaz....no can do
Zubler, probably the second best in the world next to a Dekema

Sorry old timer, got expensive taste when it comes to firing porcelain...My furnace is my best friend, and will be around for many years .

Master AL
Have a local friend who has the Ney like yours and picked up a demo Ivoclar on the cheap at a meeting.......... Guess which one fires design with less tearing and emax ?.......
Talking about a porcelain furnace, not press .

 

[CatamountRob]

I use an Ivoclar P100, its probably 12 yrs. old and I have replaced the muffle once and the blades once (the blades make contact when the muffle closes). I would buy another Programat furnace without hesitation. Rob