Milling machines(My take on it)

[NicelyMKV]

Please correct me if I am wrong. This is my view so far on the need for certain milling machines over others. Im a newbie in this area so guide my if necessary. I am using the Roland DWX-50(just got one) as my example due to all the back and forth.

Lexus is 250(Roland DWX-50)
Subaru WRX STi( Mills costing over $50,000 that can mill alloy etc)

Typical drive from point A to point B within city limits. The Lexus or WRX are both limited by the speed limits( material and bur limitations) of the particular road you are traveling. Both vehicles are capable of much higher speeds and maneuverability but it does not matter due to speed limitations set by the governing bodies( Zr, Wax, pmma and the burs used.) So, why spend 60 grand on a mill for Zr, wax or pmma? The Roland will mill at the same speed as those mills using the same Cam software.... so explain to me why people are spending the big bucks?

Now, if you are going to race in the 100 acre wood rally( milling alloy) then you will definitely need the properly equipped Subaru WRX STi( more expensive mills) over the Lexus is250(Roland DWX-50)

But other than that, I see zero benefit? Servo motors over stepper motors? They mill at the same speed? Servo may be beneficial in situations where your milling extremely tough material(alloy) to continually calibrate positioning but for Zr? or Wax? People are getting thousands of units out of the Roland with zero issues. I think there is a lot of miss information being generated about the spindles etc. The Roland is running at 1/3rd is capabilities to mill Zr etc. The material itself cant handle any more. It would trash the material if it sped up. Thats a material limitation, not the machine. I really want to understand why people insist on spending so much more money and why a very few continue to knock the Roland?

Please correct me if I am wrong with actual Facts.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[Drizzt]

I like your point of view!! Lexus and STI !! Very nice !
I have the same questions like you but I can't make up my mind !
How is the Roland treating you ? Are you happy with the quality of the milling ? Fit , sealed margins , time ?

 

[paulg100]

"I really want to understand why people insist on spending so much more money"

let me give you an inlab compact or mcxl to use and you will see why.

if you had bought a mill 2-3 years ago then it was a different story. its only very recently with these new compact mills that the lines are beginning to blur.

 

[NicelyMKV]

Rocking 5 axis milling for era attachments etc! Awesome!

 

[charles007]

Jason, you left out the main point in your argument , you can now buy a used Lexus with the saving with your Roland..The saving with the Exocad will pay for the $4.00 gas ....

I see this as a Win Win.. Or your could mill an alumium crown to throw mud in someone face..

Now show us a molar milled in 5 axis over a 4 axis mill, to put the icing on the cake....

 

[Xdental]

I ended buying 3 wrx sti's instead of the Lexus Is250. I tried getting a desktop mill and even the Roland. I just felt they were not as solid as the big units I ended up purchasing. I have 3 bd30 (3000) mills and they run about 18 hours a day non stop with very little issue. The desktop mill I had had many issues and ended up returning it. It was one of the desktop mills from B&D and it was not only a pain to work on if anything went wrong with it (because everything was some compact) I had many issues with durability and all i was milling was zirconia! who knows maybe I just got a bad batch of the desktop mills but I feel much more comfortable with the bigger units. On the flip size I also still have my Lava Dinosaur I am talking way old school and have had 0 problems with it. All Milling manufactures please take note haha. Those are just my 2 cents I would love to hear more about other peoples experiences

 

[shane williams]

Wieland T100-$120,000? Roland DWX-50-$30,000 hmmmm I don't have to be a rocket scientist here to see that I can buy 4 Rolands for the price of 1 Wieland and get 4x the production on a machine that mills the same material. I'm a little bias since I have a Roland but insert any small desktop mill, Easy Mill, Weiland Mini(a bit more than $30,000) etc. We have people on here that have used Rolands for a year now with no problems. The real concern I think people need to look at isn't the size of the mill, but what's running it! What kind of CAM are you using to run your mill. We use SUM3D. People on DLN have been very pleased with it, as are we. I'm not knocking on Wieland or anything I'm sure they make a good product, but spending over a 100k on a mill and mill zr, wax, pmma on it seems ridiculous.

 

[NicelyMKV]

That's what I was thinking myself Shane. I'm using sum3D as well. Awesome!

 

[biodentg]

Hi Xdental, are you talking about the Origin 50 as your desktop or the 400/500 ?

 

[biodentg]

Hi Jason, you saw the Yenadent 50 in Chicago. Any reason for not getting this milling unit instead of the Roland? thanks

 

[Xdental]

It was the the 400 sorry I currently have 2 3000 and buying a 5000 but I think this forum has talked some sense in me and may try the roland again. Man I wish I found this forum sooner

 

[NicelyMKV]

I saw the Origin 50. It was still incomplete as far as I knew? I think it was the one you are talking about. I talked a little with the developer. I didn't think it was a yenadent machine though? He was from Korea.

The 4 and 500 series seemed like pretty heavy duty mills. I was looking at the 400 with dual puck holders at first. I then decided I would like to have a 5 axis machine just in case. The price of the 500 was almost double that of the Roland after Origins price increase. I personally wanted an open Cam as well. I want to put whatever I want in it without relying on someone else to allow it. Don't get me wrong, I understand why Origins set it up the way they did. I just preferred it another way. I also like the idea of daisy chaining multiple Rolands together if the need ever arose under one Cam license

I also looked at the weiland mini. Another nice machine. The extra axis of the Roland and sum3d helped steer me the other direction though. I am still waiting on the BOFA vac unit that was specifically designed for the Roland. Cuts on and off automatically with the machine etc. I will definitely keep everyone posted on my experiences with the Roland. I will put it through everything I can think of in the next few months

 

[NicelyMKV]

I like your point of view!! Lexus and STI !! Very nice !
I have the same questions like you but I can't make up my mind !
How is the Roland treating you ? Are you happy with the quality of the milling ? Fit , sealed margins , time ?

I milled several wax units today. I did this for the 1:1 ratio milling. Margins were dead on under magnification. I will post some photos Monday or Tuesday. Using a Canon T2i with Canon 100mm macro lens So far so good as far as quality of the mill. I will post lots of photos of all the different things I mill including restorations on some of the horrible preps I get

 

[Drizzt]

I milled several wax units today. I did this for the 1:1 ratio milling. Margins were dead on under magnification. I will post some photos Monday or Tuesday. Using a Canon T2i with Canon 100mm macro lens So far so good as far as quality of the mill. I will post lots of photos of all the different things I mill including restorations on some of the horrible preps I get

You do that sir !! For us who are still searching for a milling machine !!!
I have almost made up my mind but I still have second thoughts if the choice is right .
This matter is all I can think of for the past month , I am supposed to deposit the downpayment to have the machine's production started but I am not totally sure yet . Anyway have fun with the Roland and keep us posted !

 

[Gita]

DWX 50 is about 30.000USD, right?? is it included CAM software?

 

[[email protected]]

NicelyMKV,
wow this info is dynamite for those of us toying with the idea of climbing on the Cad cam wagon, always a big decision for a small lab as to invest this kind of money, the pros and cons, fact is the tools have to work correctly and accurately, If you look at the drama some guys had and continue to have re the sirona disaster.
This equipment is a lot more affordable for smaller operations (1 or 2 man labs as many are) than what has been available historically.
The only way I will throw the cash into this equipment is if the productivity justifies it and productivity is directly proportional to the quality of the result.
I think you have made the right move re the Roland, seems a lot of guys on the forums are happy as pigs in poo with their machines (even Mark says are the bizniz).
I will follow anything you post with great interest, please post pics of any results that you feel are worth a look!!

Many Thanks!!
Keith, South Africa.

 

[paulg100]

"I milled several wax units today. I did this for the 1:1 ratio milling. Margins were dead on under magnification. I will post some photos Monday or Tuesday. Using a Canon T2i with Canon 100mm macro len"

look forward to seeing those jason.

 

[DMC]

"I milled several wax units today. I did this for the 1:1 ratio milling. Margins were dead on under magnification. I will post some photos Monday or Tuesday. Using a Canon T2i with Canon 100mm macro len"

look forward to seeing those jason.

The Spindle Chiller Unit in my mills weigh more than a Roland.

This is just the refridg. to keep the spindle cool and to maintain it's dimentional stability.

I'll save my breath and just watch you figure it out.

 

[BobCDT]

Hi,
We are a Roland reseller (as well as a milling center) and before adding to this thread I thought you should know this.
We have been milling wax, zirconia and PMMA in our Rolands. We also have large industrial sized very expensive mills. The results we achieve with the Roland are easily as good as what we get out of the larger more expensive mill. We do frequent comparative analysis under 10X microscopes. As another opinion, when milling soft materials like zirconia, wax and PMMA the Roland has been a great solution and the heavy duty industrial mills are over kill. The Roland is Dependable, easy to use, and comes with a great ROI.
If you are outsourcing just 10 units a day purchasing a Roland will reduce the cost to mill to $15 per unit. This includes materials, tooling and the loan for the mill. 5 units a day will cost only $18 or $19 per unit.
Bob

 

[paulg100]

i take it your figures are based on the cost of the mill only bob?

not a whole set up, ie scanner, cad, cam and mill.