Anyone have any info on the DWOS Laser Mill?

[RJS8669]

Cost? Availability? Materials?

 

[2thm8kr]

Cost? Availability? Materials?

Not sure this has hit the market here yet.

 

[Yourgoes]

No question laser ablation is 10/10 on the coolness/nerdiness scale... It'll be interesting to see how practical it proves to be.
I don't believe it is yet available, there is very limited information on their website about it.
The system they showed at IDS only mills blocks, so no disk options yet. Accuracy looks superior, shows promise. I believe it is for non-metallic materials at the moment.
Reliability and ROI are my outstanding questions, they claim little to no maintenance and the laser life is the life of the mill...

http://www.dentalwings.com/news/introduction-of-our-revolutionary-laser-milling-technology/
https://www.dentalaegis.com/id/2015/04/dental-wings-laser-milling

 

[mrcadcam]

Just to give you guys inside scoop and to piss you off.

This is going to be targeted more towards your dentist. They are pushing it as Doctor owns the scanner and the mill and "the lab" will do the designing( Which I call bullsh*t on because our Cerec doc's do all there own designing). So all your full zirconia you do now the doctor can now do without the sintering process. 3 to 6 minute mill time. We do maybe 300 Full ZR's a day and thats 90% of or workload not looking good for us. Get ready for it people. F - Hereus an Big F to Dental Wings if it turns out its their main focus.

 

[mrcadcam]

Oh yeah price is going to be priced under a Cerec as i was just told....Have a good day

 

[2thm8kr]

The times are changing. Position yourself accordingly.

 

[PearlZ]

if you believe it anyway.

a lot of doctors still use film and impressions, Laser milling is not going to sway them to also buy into digital scanner, CAD, and keep tabs on sintering/baking emax blocks. this laser stuff will go straight to the 1% of the cerec users that liked cerec, or the planmill/e4d users that liked it. it will not gain any more ground than that. not until DW packages their IOS and Laser with charside support far and above the average Lab ability to give support, which necessarily means employing round the clock techs by the thousands to hold the dentist's hands, solve all the sintering of blocks, solve all the custom shade requirements and prepare the dentists for doing large cases.

no, that's too much for DW to manage. they can't do it. cerec refuses to do it, not even the tech giant 3shape can do it and they too have a chairside unit.

the first generation laser ablation machine from DW will end up like the cerec unit; limited in capability lacking in support, and failing to meet expectations.

edited to add: this is not something i am pulling out of my butt; i've seen with my own eyes dentists with a straight face ask out lout without fear - how Trios handles full mouth cases. yes, how Trios handles it. because Dr. Idiot couldn't wrap his tiny head around it. we seriously gonna fall for the idea that this 1 unit "miracle" cutter can manage expectations any better than the current chairside single unit mills? all it is good for if anything will be nicer margins and cutbacks that have to go all the way down past the incisal edge. but again the dentist will manage facial layering? with what model? going back to the age of rocks to make stone models for this? great use of the million dollar idea there Dr TweedleDum.

i would LOVE to see it handle an undercut case or anything too big for the block.

 

[2thm8kr]

if you believe it anyway.

a lot of doctors still use film and impressions, Laser milling is not going to sway them to also buy into digital scanner, CAD, and keep tabs on sintering/baking emax blocks. this laser stuff will go straight to the 1% of the cerec users that liked cerec, or the planmill/e4d users that liked it. it will not gain any more ground than that. not until DW packages their IOS and Laser with charside support far and above the average Lab ability to give support, which necessarily means employing round the clock techs by the thousands to hold the dentist's hands, solve all the sintering of blocks, solve all the custom shade requirements and prepare the dentists for doing large cases.

no, that's too much for DW to manage. they can't do it. cerec refuses to do it, not even the tech giant 3shape can do it and they too have a chairside unit.

the first generation laser ablation machine from DW will end up like the cerec unit; limited in capability lacking in support, and failing to meet expectations.

I have a tendency to believe your predictions about this product master jedi.

 

[rkm rdt]

Apparently it does tats too.

 

[mrcadcam]

Cerec doesn't even do all what you think Dental Wings would have too. No sintering bud, its all presintered
...and have you even tried the new materials? The new materials have given our dentists a lot of trust with the digital realm and we get calls almost every week about which inter oral scanner to buy.

Your obviously not seeing whats happening. We manufacture an amazing amount of abutments since prices have come way down and are busier than we have ever been. But that in turn replaces the full mouth and bridge type restoration. If your not seeing it then yes your dentists are quite a bit behind and enjoy there stupidity as long as you can.

And what chairside mill is 3shape?

 

[mrcadcam]

Apparently it does tats too.

8121 posts, you obviously do a lot of work. Very informative post

 

[rkm rdt]

pull that post out of your a$$ .
you have issues.

 

[rkm rdt]

Luke was talking about Trios .

 

[PearlZ]

yes that's my point. Cerec (patterson) refuse to give that kind of support. they want to do singles that fit in their blocks and that's all.

but emax still needs to be baked, that's porcelain technician expertise that will ensure quality. when the furnace inevitably coughs up an error or there another unit to get done or any hiccup at all the process isn't going to go smoothly for an inexperienced dentist that doesnt bake and stack porcelain for a living. the very idea bemoans the existence of milling a chunk of ugly emax with or without a laser.

but here is a paper showing the need for fully sintered zirconia to be Wet Ablated using an absurdly precise volume of liquid is highly specific localized area, with machining time in Hours. http://www.jlps.gr.jp/jlmn/upload/69e9173f7e92985d53fb2a077987de1c.pdf

the laser mill might do emax blocks, suprinity and a few others but given the dire precision nature of milling fully sintered zirconia by this paper it wont be offered unless DW has engineered a way and hasn't told anyone.

its not only my dentists that are behind the times, i represent but a tiny chunk of my country and without hesitation i can say my words echo through many small towns across the world. they established their practice in the early/late80's, grew to be comfortable in the 90's and are sampling growth contemplating retirement looking for young replacements accustomed to old ways.

the dentists i have that bought trios or planscan are young and in debt up to their eyeballs. they know it already takes too long to do a case with just the added scanner involved, adding to the work by reforming hygenists or assistants to do milling or designing just adds wasted time to their practice. i have set up MANY dentists to send me their scans in quick single clicks. its done and they can move on. they have to, because 1 unit can't take all day and be done 4 times.

that's the level of support you have to be able to give - holding their hand as they virtually ignore everything beyond the chair. some of the techs in this very forum move from office to office offering to scan the patients, freeing up the dentist to watch and grow or move on. in the case of RKM this very method has grown his business to a place where he is nearly in a position to retire.

DW can't provide this kind of support. can't. patterson refuses. and 3shape's emergence into chairside is spooky.

i will try to find the video for you but i can't right now.

 

[Yourgoes]

What I find interesting is that Mitsui Chemicals/Heraeus has made investments in both 3D printing (they have their own printer now) and milling through DWOS laser ablation... hedging bets?
Chairside solutions do not have a very fast adoption rate at the moment, but one should not ignore this ever growing segment.

Look at photography (a passion of many on this site) It used to be a very lab intensive activity which required a lot of waiting and labor to go from initial exposure to a result. There was great artistry in the lab techniques of manual processing, and they all disappeared in less than a decade, giving way to the instant gratification of digital photography.

First the amateurs took it up, then once the quality improved, the professionals followed. I think the same will happen in our industry, once the products are improved to be equal or superior to the traditional alternatives, it will be an obvious choice. Can't compete with instant gratification

 

[PearlZ]

What I find interesting is that Mitsui Chemicals/Heraeus has made investments in both 3D printing (they have their own printer now) and milling through DWOS laser ablation... hedging bets?
Chairside solutions do not have a very fast adoption rate at the moment, but one should not ignore this ever growing segment.

Look at photography (a passion of many on this site) It used to be a very lab intensive activity which required a lot of waiting and labor to go from initial exposure to a result. There was great artistry in the lab techniques of manual processing, and they all disappeared in less than a decade, giving way to the instant gratification of digital photography.

First the amateurs took it up, then once the quality improved, the professionals followed. I think the same will happen in our industry, once the products are improved to be equal or superior to the traditional alternatives, it will be an obvious choice. Can't compete with instant gratification

bang on..

it was Digital photography that turned turnaround time around. wow what a wacky sentence.

all the resulting speedups in the process excacerbated the competition for faster turnaround with the same success. the same happens with milling, with printing, and the new super trans units replacing the market for pfz.

since laser ablation Might offer a quicker turnaround for zirconia if it doesnt take hours to do a single, yes it will also add to the continuing push to cut time. but i don't think it will, and that is my opinion.

cool factor >9000/10, successful integration maybe 7/10.

 

[2thm8kr]

and we get calls almost every week about which inter oral scanner to buy.

So let me get this straight. You're worried about chairside solutions taking away from your dinner plate, but you don't give advice on
which IO scanner for them to purchase and send you the files?

 

[rkm rdt]

$85 crown guy and his factory monkees have everything to worry about.They are replaceable. The sooner the better.

For the rest of us ,it's just another toy that will collect dust when the assistant gets pregnant.

 

[mrcadcam]

So let me get this straight. You're worried about chairside solutions taking away from your dinner plate, but you don't give advice on
which IO scanner for them to purchase and send you the files?

Its obvious what scanners you want to push to the dentist to not effect your bottom line. But after a rep has been in there office your only way is to help them in the direction that they are going to ultimately choose.

 

[PearlZ]

wow, 4 years ago i was just a padawan. now you call me Jedi. i feel honored.