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Thibaut
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I've never used an imes, I know their reputation is all. What I do think is revealing is, multiple machines offers for different tasks is a very good sign of their competence from a manufacturing perspective.
Now the ugly, this won't be just the milling but ZZ in general so people know if they read this.
I have a friend who has had a ZZ ecosystem since many years. I would highly recommend you do not go with them. ZZ is just parts put together from other companies, they then add their amazing unoptimized code on top. Hence, there are a lot of bugs going from scanning, nesting and milling.
Scanner never remembers you've activated high resolution and texture mapping doesn't work, nice for making BOPT crowns.
Modelier is exocad with years behind, even dentaldb is from 2019, so let's say you set 16 as crown, dentaldb since 2020 or something sets 46 as antagoniste automatically, nice gain of time. There's no overlay so you need to make it as an inlay if using another exocad (and side note dentalcad scenes won't be compatible between both software) you might have because their nesting won't recognise the construction file, it's not in their milling strategies "yet". So you'll be manually grinding more by hand.
Their 3D printer is probably just a chitubox board and screen from the UI I saw at IDS.
Nesting is sum 3D technologies as far I could tell by digging in the files. It's very very slow to nest. You can't add multiple STL, either from their menu or drag and drop, everytime you will have to drop or chose one at a time, then a new window opens where they'll ask you the dentist and patient. You want to just write A and hit enter on keyboard ? No, they just don't code correctly using windows structure or whatever.
I used to work with a VHF, I could drag and drop 20 wax inlay STL all at once and once nested launch immediately while still calculating in the background.
Here you'll have to go through 10 windows every time, enjoy.
Nesting a crown is like 3-5 minutes on a geforce 3060 even on parallel boost mode whatever.
Speaking to people in the known at IDS their spindle is kind of a joke, not sure this is accurate as I don't know enough about this domain.
Do note that they love all their useless 3D visualisations that makes you lose a lot of time and slows inevitably the software. You open and close the door, you'll need to wait for the animation to finish, of course it has 2 seconds lag, same to moving the parts when preparing or cleaning the orbit.
You launched a 98 disk or glass mill with the telescope then immediately launch another it will still ask you to put the telescope on, they'd only need to code a bit to fix the problem but nah. They also ask you is the disk in. Sometimes you will leave the M2 after pressing mill as this message can take a few seconds, you'll forget about it only see it later on. Instead why not just launch the bloody disk automatically and if you've forgotten to put it in you'll just mill air. That's just logic.
Want to nest a glass ceramics, sure let's display a 3D block with the metal attachment so you can't see where to connection is, and just setting it right is a mess, most of times when adding from nesting queue it just won't create the connection anyways, put it back in nesting queue, add it again and pray.
The milling takes about 1 h 15 for an inlay in 5X and it can just break. In 3X it took me an hour and it was horrible, made me remember the time I milled copings.
Simple reason, why would they care optimizing it since they don't sell this material ? Even if you just set one block at the end of program it will still blow the other 5 just because they don't want to code. You lose at least 3 minutes every time.
You want to mill a full bridge that will have implants later on in the day, so meaning you mill the upper part with the teeth in the morning then the dentist sets the implant and you then mill gingiva and connections you'll have to use their disk and barcodes. If somethings wrong happens you can't go back on the disk history with those disks.
The resolution of the m2 screen is way too big, good for watching a movie but for accurate use of tactical function you'll be pressing multiple times till you hit the right pixel. The software can just crash at random.
Last but not least they have a phone app to check out your m2 is alive and breathing, great, nothing more.
So let's say you want to start a mill when not at the lab, you left at 6mp and leave it to nest for let's say 2 hours, and want to just start the milling remotely, you'll still need physical access to the machine since you can't access higher privileges in windows to activate the necessary option in anydesk, you're just a user, they are the admin. It's not really your PC right, why would it be, you paid for it.
Your contract will clearly state you have to buy 1 year of support for the milling machine, and that's fine, but if you want to stop after that you will still need to pay for a "package" of all your contracts of ZZ stuff, so still pay for your 2018 scanner software updates, that haven't been updated in years or modelier or your old M1 that you're not using that much anymore.
Not even sure this is legal, we've had so much battle with them to not pay all that other crap and keep M2 support but couldn't make it happen,
We are proudly the most pain in the ass customers in France or so they say.
Basically ZZ is a half closed system not half open, and them selling also the materials on the contrary to just a CAM company like imes will make you see where their priorities go, not yours.
Sorry this is a long rant, I could go on for days honestly, details you'll say, okay a big one then, ZZ, make an all in one plate so we gain massive scanning time.
Just remember this, they sell consumables and that's where they probably make the most money. Go with a company that only offer what you need, good machine, good software, fast processes, and don't consider you one of their product.
TLDR; My opinion is simply this, stay away from that cult of a company !
Now the ugly, this won't be just the milling but ZZ in general so people know if they read this.
I have a friend who has had a ZZ ecosystem since many years. I would highly recommend you do not go with them. ZZ is just parts put together from other companies, they then add their amazing unoptimized code on top. Hence, there are a lot of bugs going from scanning, nesting and milling.
Scanner never remembers you've activated high resolution and texture mapping doesn't work, nice for making BOPT crowns.
Modelier is exocad with years behind, even dentaldb is from 2019, so let's say you set 16 as crown, dentaldb since 2020 or something sets 46 as antagoniste automatically, nice gain of time. There's no overlay so you need to make it as an inlay if using another exocad (and side note dentalcad scenes won't be compatible between both software) you might have because their nesting won't recognise the construction file, it's not in their milling strategies "yet". So you'll be manually grinding more by hand.
Their 3D printer is probably just a chitubox board and screen from the UI I saw at IDS.
Nesting is sum 3D technologies as far I could tell by digging in the files. It's very very slow to nest. You can't add multiple STL, either from their menu or drag and drop, everytime you will have to drop or chose one at a time, then a new window opens where they'll ask you the dentist and patient. You want to just write A and hit enter on keyboard ? No, they just don't code correctly using windows structure or whatever.
I used to work with a VHF, I could drag and drop 20 wax inlay STL all at once and once nested launch immediately while still calculating in the background.
Here you'll have to go through 10 windows every time, enjoy.
Nesting a crown is like 3-5 minutes on a geforce 3060 even on parallel boost mode whatever.
Speaking to people in the known at IDS their spindle is kind of a joke, not sure this is accurate as I don't know enough about this domain.
Do note that they love all their useless 3D visualisations that makes you lose a lot of time and slows inevitably the software. You open and close the door, you'll need to wait for the animation to finish, of course it has 2 seconds lag, same to moving the parts when preparing or cleaning the orbit.
You launched a 98 disk or glass mill with the telescope then immediately launch another it will still ask you to put the telescope on, they'd only need to code a bit to fix the problem but nah. They also ask you is the disk in. Sometimes you will leave the M2 after pressing mill as this message can take a few seconds, you'll forget about it only see it later on. Instead why not just launch the bloody disk automatically and if you've forgotten to put it in you'll just mill air. That's just logic.
Want to nest a glass ceramics, sure let's display a 3D block with the metal attachment so you can't see where to connection is, and just setting it right is a mess, most of times when adding from nesting queue it just won't create the connection anyways, put it back in nesting queue, add it again and pray.
The milling takes about 1 h 15 for an inlay in 5X and it can just break. In 3X it took me an hour and it was horrible, made me remember the time I milled copings.
Simple reason, why would they care optimizing it since they don't sell this material ? Even if you just set one block at the end of program it will still blow the other 5 just because they don't want to code. You lose at least 3 minutes every time.
You want to mill a full bridge that will have implants later on in the day, so meaning you mill the upper part with the teeth in the morning then the dentist sets the implant and you then mill gingiva and connections you'll have to use their disk and barcodes. If somethings wrong happens you can't go back on the disk history with those disks.
The resolution of the m2 screen is way too big, good for watching a movie but for accurate use of tactical function you'll be pressing multiple times till you hit the right pixel. The software can just crash at random.
Last but not least they have a phone app to check out your m2 is alive and breathing, great, nothing more.
So let's say you want to start a mill when not at the lab, you left at 6mp and leave it to nest for let's say 2 hours, and want to just start the milling remotely, you'll still need physical access to the machine since you can't access higher privileges in windows to activate the necessary option in anydesk, you're just a user, they are the admin. It's not really your PC right, why would it be, you paid for it.
Your contract will clearly state you have to buy 1 year of support for the milling machine, and that's fine, but if you want to stop after that you will still need to pay for a "package" of all your contracts of ZZ stuff, so still pay for your 2018 scanner software updates, that haven't been updated in years or modelier or your old M1 that you're not using that much anymore.
Not even sure this is legal, we've had so much battle with them to not pay all that other crap and keep M2 support but couldn't make it happen,
We are proudly the most pain in the ass customers in France or so they say.
Basically ZZ is a half closed system not half open, and them selling also the materials on the contrary to just a CAM company like imes will make you see where their priorities go, not yours.
Sorry this is a long rant, I could go on for days honestly, details you'll say, okay a big one then, ZZ, make an all in one plate so we gain massive scanning time.
Just remember this, they sell consumables and that's where they probably make the most money. Go with a company that only offer what you need, good machine, good software, fast processes, and don't consider you one of their product.
TLDR; My opinion is simply this, stay away from that cult of a company !
