Where to begin with surgical guides

[ToothmakerIDL]

Yeah I put all the settings into blue sky. It's just that it's new to me and I'm not sure if I actually did it right.

Implants are crazy with all their different parts and size and platforms, really gives me head a spin.

I use codiagnostix, clinician and simplant. Roughly 30-40 guides a month. I have used blue sky bio and I’ll tell you you get what you pay for.
What you want to focus on is ideal placement while still protecting buccal and lingual comical plates, verifying bone density and knowing your bone types. Also note that you will want to ensure you are designing to your clients abilities. Meaning the guided kits. Each company has one and they are all different with different prolongations and different sleeve sizes and diff entry sleeve sizes for each size of Implant in each type.
I would recommend if you are just starting to fable in guided surgery to stick with guided pilot, ct based guides. Great profit center and it will get you acclimated with your clients expectations, and will eventually lead to fully guided comprehension. , while allowing the specialists to finalize the osteotomy unguided. The VSP’s that you will conduct with the treating clinician will also give you insight on each case as well as applicability to future surgical cases and you can build from there.

 

[Mike2]

Spoke with Straumann as they are going to offer a new German Printer soon? I asked about doing the guides in y area and they said yeh it'd be great... They said their support is great, second to none. So then I mentioned maybe I could get the scanner form a lab owner who isn't using it(a straumann scanner purchased 2years ago}, they said yeah that is outdated so I would have to buy a scanner from them and the software, then printer when/if it becomes available?
I currently use Exocad and pretty sure there is no solution there, to incorporate CBCT scan and DIM files?? So my questions are :
1 Anyone using Codiagnostix software, how is Dental wings support
2 Not sure of the scanner but it's Dental WIngs software( that Straumann now owns?) In the past is wasn't very intuative
3 Had have Straumann relationship for a while, but they are always one of the more expensive options and manufacturer
4 I have their Ekton kit and was amazed they wanted to mill other Companies abuts. but preach to all the Docs they must use only OEM parts or warranty voids
5 Lastly I was told they don't even mill their own connections for custom abuts., someone else does connection and they mill the slug when u order the custom Abut.
6 Lastly asked about gold anodized, instead of 10$ US, they said they thought the charge from them was 30$US ????
I know it's a lot to ask any help would be appreciated!!Thanks in advance!

 

[JustDavid]

Hi there,

Firstly the 2y old sw if on a CS2 I wouldn’t by Hardware isn’t that great anymore but on a Dental-Wings Scanner, just ask the rep to transfer the license to you 1500 or so for 1y Lic as per normal.
The transfer is free, add some RAM and your system is up-to-date.


1 Anyone using Codiagnostix software, how is Dental wings support
- Not sure for the US but in general Cdx is very stable and don’t require much tech support. With regards to how-to, they got videos, live webinars etc.
If in the US there are other conpanies selling codiagnostix with a focus on it.
No lock in, just a different party supporting you if Straumann is in that regard not your cup of tea.

2 Not sure of the scanner but it's Dental WIngs software( that Straumann now owns?) In the past is wasn't very intuative

- Dental-Wings the company is as a whole owned by Straumann, you can always go to Dental-Wings.com Resources and download the Cares software to play with for free. Why buy something you haven’t fully tested?
3 Had have Straumann relationship for a while, but they are always one of the more expensive options and manufacturer
CAD SW is possibly one of the cheapest out there, if you got mainly IOS go standalone 1/3 the prince and just 1.5k yearly fee including almost everything.
Cdx, has a higher fee to export but has much more to offer than just drill guides. Could also export Dicom set with scanbody as stl to start working on the case without a ios Scan or physical model. 1 clickfee and the case is open to export what ever you want.

4 I have their Ekton kit and was amazed they wanted to mill other Companies abuts. but preach to all the Docs they must use only OEM parts or warranty voids
You’re not alone ;-),that’s why it’s milled by Etkon not Straumann

5 Lastly I was told they don't even mill their own connections for custom abuts., someone else does connection and they mill the slug when u order the custom Abut.
Etkon = Medentika
Straumann Pure Straumann the abutments are milled from blank with connection in place manufactured by Straumann all the way in villeret/Swiss

6 Lastly asked about gold anodized, instead of 10$ US, they said they thought the charge from them was 30$US ????
No idea




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bryce Hiller]

Spoke with Straumann as they are going to offer a new German Printer soon? I asked about doing the guides in y area and they said yeh it'd be great... They said their support is great, second to none. So then I mentioned maybe I could get the scanner form a lab owner who isn't using it(a straumann scanner purchased 2years ago}, they said yeah that is outdated so I would have to buy a scanner from them and the software, then printer when/if it becomes available?
I currently use Exocad and pretty sure there is no solution there, to incorporate CBCT scan and DIM files?? So my questions are :
1 Anyone using Codiagnostix software, how is Dental wings support
2 Not sure of the scanner but it's Dental WIngs software( that Straumann now owns?) In the past is wasn't very intuative
3 Had have Straumann relationship for a while, but they are always one of the more expensive options and manufacturer
4 I have their Ekton kit and was amazed they wanted to mill other Companies abuts. but preach to all the Docs they must use only OEM parts or warranty voids
5 Lastly I was told they don't even mill their own connections for custom abuts., someone else does connection and they mill the slug when u order the custom Abut.
6 Lastly asked about gold anodized, instead of 10$ US, they said they thought the charge from them was 30$US ????
I know it's a lot to ask any help would be appreciated!!Thanks in advance!

As a current Dental Wings user, I would strongly advise that you stay far, FAR away from this software.

 

[Cory@WhipMix]

I'd like to start offering surgical guides. I need to do some reading on the process. Anybody have any good links for this?

Bryce check out these two books. Pricey, but very knowledgeable.

Contemporary Implant Dentistry
https://www.amazon.com/Contemporary...preST=_SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch

Dental Implant Prosthetics
https://www.amazon.com/Dental-Impla...preST=_SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch

 

[RCKSTR]

Can anyone suggest a place that I could just send scans and they would be able to make a guide?

Fullcontour does fully planned guides, by a Doctor on their staff.

 

[lcmlabforum]

Hi there,

Firstly the 2y old sw if on a CS2 I wouldn’t by Hardware isn’t that great anymore but on a Dental-Wings Scanner, just ask the rep to transfer the license to you 1500 or so for 1y Lic as per normal.
The transfer is free, add some RAM and your system is up-to-date.


1 Anyone using Codiagnostix software, how is Dental wings support
- Not sure for the US but in general Cdx is very stable and don’t require much tech support. With regards to how-to, they got videos, live webinars etc.
If in the US there are other conpanies selling codiagnostix with a focus on it.
No lock in, just a different party supporting you if Straumann is in that regard not your cup of tea.

2 Not sure of the scanner but it's Dental WIngs software( that Straumann now owns?) In the past is wasn't very intuative

- Dental-Wings the company is as a whole owned by Straumann, you can always go to Dental-Wings.com Resources and download the Cares software to play with for free. Why buy something you haven’t fully tested?
3 Had have Straumann relationship for a while, but they are always one of the more expensive options and manufacturer
CAD SW is possibly one of the cheapest out there, if you got mainly IOS go standalone 1/3 the prince and just 1.5k yearly fee including almost everything.
Cdx, has a higher fee to export but has much more to offer than just drill guides. Could also export Dicom set with scanbody as stl to start working on the case without a ios Scan or physical model. 1 clickfee and the case is open to export what ever you want.

4 I have their Ekton kit and was amazed they wanted to mill other Companies abuts. but preach to all the Docs they must use only OEM parts or warranty voids
You’re not alone ;-),that’s why it’s milled by Etkon not Straumann

5 Lastly I was told they don't even mill their own connections for custom abuts., someone else does connection and they mill the slug when u order the custom Abut.
Etkon = Medentika
Straumann Pure Straumann the abutments are milled from blank with connection in place manufactured by Straumann all the way in villeret/Swiss

6 Lastly asked about gold anodized, instead of 10$ US, they said they thought the charge from them was 30$US ????
No idea




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for sharing, but you might be on an international hitlist of someone from Europe for spilling the beans after this!
And in that country, that old country, firearms are legal too!
LCM

 

[user name]

As a lab guy, most surgeons seem to be impressed that I can speak. The fact Im wanting to help amuses them.

If I could just supply a model with a circle where the missing tooth will go Id be improving most cases.

 

[Sda36]

As a lab guy, most surgeons seem to be impressed that I can speak. The fact Im wanting to help amuses them.

If I could just supply a model with a circle where the missing tooth will go Id be improving most cases.

Lol right on!![emoji23]

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk

 

[lcmlabforum]

Add a bright red cross-hair in case they cannot see or think that is just an incomplete emoji . . .

 

[Kaiser7100]

Now days oral surgeons all have os. You try to sell vacuum forming they’ll laugh at you. Only times they use even printed are really for multi units. Now they want everything in one. Stent temp abuts pmma at surgery.

 

[2thm8kr]

Technology has moved on. They laugh because vacuum formed is a joke. Without the 3d data of the bone structure a vacuum formed guide is merely a suggested area of placement and a waste of time/money.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Technology has moved on. They laugh because vacuum formed is a joke. Without the 3d data of the bone structure a vacuum formed guide is merely a suggested area of placement and a waste of time/money.

its better than no guide most of the time though!

 

[2thm8kr]

its better than no guide most of the time though!

It is still just a suggestion. Plenty of times I have done the digital DX before I get the CT scan and when everything is matched up and you can see what is really underneath the gingiva.....there is no room for an implant between the cortical plates. Plus with a vacuum formed guide there is no accurate depth control. This is how implants perforate the sinus or nasal floor or impinge on the mandibular canal or worse.

Attorney: "So doctor, you decided to place an implant on my client using a vacuum formed lab made surgical guide rather than using modern 3d imaging and planning software?"
"Now my client is experiencing post surgical numbness and/or recurring sinus problems."

What could be said to defend the decision to use a vacuum formed guess?

 

[Affinity]

Any good books on the liability involved in placing where an implant goes for a Dr?

 

[2thm8kr]

Any good books on the liability involved in placing where an implant goes for a Dr?

The liability is ultimately on the surgeon placing the implants. It is their decision whether to proceed with the placement or not. ALL of the cases I DX and plan are reviewed by the surgeon before the guides are designed and printed.

 

[Affinity]

So you think that would or could stop a surgeon from suing you? Do they sign off on a legal document?

 

[2thm8kr]

So you think that would or could stop a surgeon from suing you? Do they sign off on a legal document?

Nothing is going to stop you from being named in any lawsuit.

I have a terms of service agreement and there is a liability waiver agreement that states the surgeon accepts all responsibility with the delivered sx report. This is pretty standard on all planning software and in the terms of service agreement with any of the corporate surgical guide/planning companies.

Do I think this is iron clad, hell no. I'd rather face this 'danger' that wax, cast, finish, opaque, build, grind in, add to, check occlusion again, glaze, another #18. I have many more years in this industry, I have to keep moving forward.

 

[rkm rdt]

From what I am seeing,implant placement closely resembles a dart tournament.

 

[JMN]

From what I am seeing,implant placement closely resembles a dart tournament.

And turns into drat...