We recently got a Nobel Kavo LS3 scanner

harmonylab

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I thought I'd give some info on it.

scanner

comes with 2 plates for model holding. one is similar to 2G, and one is for use with putty. full articulators fit, using putty plate. of course, it has default kavo plate interface. scan speed is good, much faster than 3shape D850. but the occlusion scan is slow for some reason. it turns extremely slowly while scanning a very wide range. has colour scanning, but we couldn't even see what it was like at first because we received a faulty unit that couldn't colour scan. it also had major connection issues, during startup and scanning. the demo unit we saw also had connection issues during startup, and our replacement unit also wouldn't connect at first, though it's been fine since. We had to get a replacement unit, because it wouldn't scan in colour, wouldn't connect half the time and one out of every few scans would fail due to some data transfer error. The die scan was also very bad and crown margins weren't fitting. The replacement unit is scanning in colour, though the colour isn't very accurate. It's our first colour scanner, so have no point of reference on whether that's the norm. It's working ok except for the die scan. I've included a scan comparison between dof, 3shape d850 and ls3. this is from the new unit. it's overall poor, with some badly blurry areas. not surprisingly, the crowns/margins aren't fitting well.

they're looking into it, but after 3 weeks we still don't have a working scanner. it's been particularly annoying when we couldn't even use our other scanner while they were trying to fix it for hours at a time.

the scan software. you can't import individual scans to a job. which is odd, because you can import a full job of scans. you can't really trim the scans, and there is no manual matching function. when die matching fails, you have to match it in design software. occlusal matching is pretty reliable but can take a while. it saves the bite scan so you can still match it in design software if it fails. you can export the scans as .stl or .ply for colour. it won't export the bite scan.

it doesn't go through dentalDB, and uses procera. no option for gingiva scan. no screw retained manual positioning option. no option to add hole/attachment either. the bar design is the regular procera one. the exocad is quite modified. They refuse to give me a list, so I can't say exactly which modules are included. model builder, virtual articulator, trusmile are definitely included. so is abutment module, but you can only do Nobel implants. Has the basic tooth libraries. it's basically valletta, but not with all features, like gingiva design. features will be available as they're added by Nobel, and will be slightly different from base version. the scene files are proprietary and encrypted. you can't export meshes to stl. final restoration can be exported to stl.
it's also limited to one install at a time. you can't just change dongle to another pc, you have to log in to web portal, unregister it, and the go through registration process on the new pc.

well, that's the rundown so far. we've had a lot of bad luck lately with things arriving broken. it's been a frustrating few months, to sat the least. 32456

feel free to ask any questions.
 
TheLabGuy

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I've heard a picture is worth 10,000 words, but that picture shows the LS3 only has one word...sh.t!!! Is that LS3 new?...or just new to you?
 
rkm rdt

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can you get your money back?
 
rkm rdt

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I've heard a picture is worth 10,000 words, but that picture shows the LS3 only has one word...sh.t!!! Is that LS3 new?...or just new to you?

Travis has given this option as well 💩
 
harmonylab

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I've heard a picture is worth 10,000 words, but that picture shows the LS3 only has one word...sh.t!!! Is that LS3 new?...or just new to you?

it's brand new.

it's gotta be a malfunction of some sort, because this is what I'd expect from craplab 10 years ago, not a brand new modern scanner that should be good enough for bars.

can you get your money back?

well, if they can't make it work right, we'll have to return it. it's unusable as it is.
 
B

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Which DOF scanner took that picture. If you don't mind sharing. HD or UHD
 
harmonylab

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Which DOF scanner took that picture. If you don't mind sharing. HD or UHD

it should be the HD.


I should've posted the specs.

camera
LS3 2.8mp
3shape D850 5mp
DOF HD 2mp

accuracy
LS3 up to 4 microns
3shape D850 7 microns
DOF HD ? can't find

these specs seem to be completely meaningless as far as I can see. only thing of note is that the LS3 has 1 camera, while 3shape has 2 and dof looks like it has 3.
 
JMN

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it should be the HD.


I should've posted the specs.

camera
LS3 2.8mp
3shape D850 5mp
DOF HD 2mp

accuracy
LS3 up to 4 microns
3shape D850 7 microns
DOF HD ? can't find

these specs seem to be completely meaningless as far as I can see. only thing of note is that the LS3 has 1 camera, while 3shape has 2 and dof looks like it has 3.
up to 4 microns. I love that. Under what conditions? What repeatability?

Scan still looks like the Forte did it, with that at least you knew it was realistically usable.
What kind of one armed monkey operation are they running now?
 
Sda36

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Glad you have your DOF! Sorry to hear your issues. We actually had some connectivity issues with our 1st DOF, seems that a wire was loosened in transit to us, crazily same symptons. We received a replacement but that's what they found out.
 
Beatrice

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What bar software is delivered with the LS3 scanner? The old NobelProcera Bar software (from Biocad) or the one with Exocad ?

Thank to answer
 
harmonylab

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What bar software is delivered with the LS3 scanner? The old NobelProcera Bar software (from Biocad) or the one with Exocad ?

Thank to answer

we haven't used it yet, but the bar software is the regular procera version, not exocad.
 
2thm8kr

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So what is the benefit of this software? You get Nobel to mill 'genuine' parts/bars?
 
harmonylab

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So what is the benefit of this software? You get Nobel to mill 'genuine' parts/bars?

There's really no reason to get this over 3shape or regular exocad, unless it's as an extra system and you want to do implant planning/surgical guides as well (assuming the scanner isn't garbage). you can't do most implants, and you simply don't have the option to add partial/full denture modules and others, unless they add them, which they may or may not do. it's not any good as a first/main system unless you only do Nobel.

They still haven't confirmed whether it's scanning properly. The scan actually looks better in the scan software, so the post processing could be an issue. there's also holes in the scan which I forgot to mention.
 
Farrah Fawcett

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3shape is not open to just design a bar and send it out for manufacturing.
It is very limited.

Harmony, why the fok did you even consider getting such a closed system?

exocad now has the implant planning software ready (fully-open) and implant and bar (also FULLY open)
Why even look anywhere else?? Everything else is more expensive and limited. Seems an obvious choice to me.
 
harmonylab

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3shape is not open to just design a bar and send it out for manufacturing.
It is very limited.

Harmony, why the fok did you even consider getting such a closed system?

exocad now has the implant planning software ready (fully-open) and implant and bar (also FULLY open)
Why even look anywhere else?? Everything else is more expensive and limited. Seems an obvious choice to me.

we already have exocad. I looked into it already. exocad is missing quite a few implant libraries for planning. our priority was implant planning and getting Nobel's support was nice, but the scanner's not working out.

calling 3shape limited is pretty laughable though. it has its issues but being limited isn't one of them.
 
harmonylab

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update:

so, it's still not resolved. there was a software update, but it didn't do anything. the scans are still coming out blurry and poorly. it does have scan trimming function and probably some other updates as well, but we've stopped using it so haven't really checked. we've been trying to return it and while they said they'd take it back, they've just been delaying and delaying. I can understand the last ditch effort to make things up, but no tech has even bothered to look at it for weeks. not sure why it didn't come with a pc, since if it was on its own pc, we wouldn't have downtime while they were working on it. they seem to think it's a post processing issue. at this point, I don't care what the issue is, I just want it fixed or gone and neither's happening, and feeling completely hung out to dry atm.
 
JMN

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update:

so, it's still not resolved. there was a software update, but it didn't do anything. the scans are still coming out blurry and poorly. it does have scan trimming function and probably some other updates as well, but we've stopped using it so haven't really checked. we've been trying to return it and while they said they'd take it back, they've just been delaying and delaying. I can understand the last ditch effort to make things up, but no tech has even bothered to look at it for weeks. not sure why it didn't come with a pc, since if it was on its own pc, we wouldn't have downtime while they were working on it. they seem to think it's a post processing issue. at this point, I don't care what the issue is, I just want it fixed or gone and neither's happening, and feeling completely hung out to dry atm.
In other words they still haven't learned since the Forte days.
 
TheLabGuy

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That sucks harmony, feel for ya...
 
Farrah Fawcett

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As the first exoplan reseller in usa, and as an 8yr reseller of exocad....i can strongly say that exocad can do anything 3shape can do and more. Including making your own implant library and beyond.

You are dreaming and kidding yourself to say otherwise 😲
 

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