Virtual study models

Affinity

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PITA is a pain in the arse

Havent yet sold any analysis, thats why im wondeing.. Seems like a very useful tool.. dont know why Drs would take the time to do it themselves...
 
Betalab

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PITA is a pain in the arse

Havent yet sold any analysis, thats why im wondeing.. Seems like a very useful tool.. dont know why Drs would take the time to do it themselves...
Really useful tool. And easy, just throw the lovely nurse at the task. Do you market your analysis successfully ?
I thought that PITA was something to wrap my souvlaki in :D
 
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Affinity

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Still working on the marketing part.. Its a plan in progress.. What do you suggest? I was going to bring the models I scanned along with printed pictures and analysis..
 
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patmo141

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So, now that you know what PITA is...sit through this 10 minute boring lecture and you will understand whyyyy its a PITA and why its probably not in the general toolbag of most dental CADs.

Solidify PITA - YouTube
 
Labwa

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Cant the 3shape model builder be used?

unsectioned model?
 
Betalab

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So, now that you know what PITA is...sit through this 10 minute boring lecture and you will understand whyyyy its a PITA and why its probably not in the general toolbag of most dental CADs.

Solidify PITA - YouTube

Thanks for that Pat. A really nice insight and it wasn't boring at all. I appreciate the parting of knowledge. Saying all that I can see it all so clearly. In 3 shape dental designer you can scan a crown prep( say also scan an orthodontic case)
From this you can add a virtual coping. An even layer to the prep to a desired thickness and desired margin. The software just adds a gentle layer to the scanned prep on the outside of the prep.
It's all done from here. No mucking around with other software , just a shell that's ready to wax print or laser sinter or mill.
Y can't I do something like this with big base artistic study models. Scan yes. Add a thickness but this time to the inside of the scan and close the geometric shape with a thin base. It just seems so much the same. It's frustrating for me as it appears so simple but is obviously complicated because no one can give me a simple answer and I do want to "KISS" without having to over work it because at the end of the day the 3d model will only sell for $50 AUS.
Regards Pat.
 
shane williams

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Hey Beta, message Scott(***). He's the guy to ask about hollowing out the models.
 
Affinity

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After playing a bit.. I may have some suggestions.. 3shape model builder isnt set up to do the ortho models.. But.. I think what you would need to do to get a hollow model is this: Have someone with rhino or another cad program change your .stl bases that are saved in 3shape to ones that have no top or bottom..then resave. The scans of the model are already hollow, but when you put the base which is a complete block, on the digital model, it covers your hollow model. I assume that the printing software would be able to take care of setting the thickness.. whether you wanted it 3-5mm thick or so. Maybe someone with a printer can chime in.
 
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patmo141

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From this you can add a virtual coping. An even layer to the prep to a desired thickness and desired margin. The software just adds a gentle layer to the scanned prep on the outside of the prep. It's all done from here. No mucking around with other software , just a shell that's ready to wax print or laser sinter or mill.
Regards Pat.

Do this with a prep that has a MOD box, sharp corners and edges. Set the thickness high. Post the image of the coping mesh, it will have problems in the corners unless 3shape has good methods for eliminating such problems. If they have good methods...then there is no technical reason you cant do the same thing with a study model.

For a regular crown prep, it's usually convex all in one direction. Stepping away from a uniformly convex surface is very easy. Also, any concavities or convexities are large compared to the offset thickness so the mesh doesn't end up crossing itself.
 
orthodent

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We have been offering digital study models for a couple years now and we use the easyrx Ortho cloud network to deliver all the models. It is a cloud system for orthodontic labs and their doctors for digital case submission, digital and graphical prescription designing, storage of all our digital orthodontic prescriptions and there is a system for storing digital models. The doctor and the lab have access to all their data on the cloud.
It also is lab management system specifically for orthodontic labs that addresses all the issues by providing a robust digital workflow. Think of Communicate except with a powerful digital prescription builder which they do not have and will not have for Ortho.
We are able to run a seamless process for all our cases, fabrication and digital all on the cloud.
www.easyrxortho.com
 
Betalab

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After playing a bit.. I may have some suggestions.. 3shape model builder isnt set up to do the ortho models.. But.. I think what you would need to do to get a hollow model is this: Have someone with rhino or another cad program change your .stl bases that are saved in 3shape to ones that have no top or bottom..then resave. The scans of the model are already hollow, but when you put the base which is a complete block, on the digital model, it covers your hollow model. I assume that the printing software would be able to take care of setting the thickness.. whether you wanted it 3-5mm thick or so. Maybe someone with a printer can chime in.
In my mind its this simple as well. We wouldn't be having this conversation and the question that would be asked is how thin do you make your study models.
I,m starting to understand a little about the computer side of things rather than the logic side of things. What your are saying sounds fine, it does in my mind as well, but I watched Patmo's video which helped me understand why it's not so easy. From the scan of the model and teeth etc. a line of the contours is created. It's what we see as our model.its a line that makes a "solid" looking shape.all on the inside is the mesh lines that the software has made to define what it has seen in a scan. It includes its base. Most of the time when we spin our model you can see the inside and outside and it looks so close to being hollow, but I think as soon as a base or artistic base is put on then the software recognises the shape as a solid. It is defined by a rule of inside against outside.
We all have different thickness textas, it would be great if the scan line and what we see had a thickness, but it doesn't. The computer / software doesn't know what is under the surface unfortunately. Logic says just evenly add all round the inside whith a thicker line then print. I have this new word now called offset. It's the distance from the original surface evenly all round and usually perpendicular to that point which you are at. So a perfect inner line from the original scan line, thus defining a shape within a shape, the void in the centre is hollow the offset to the original scan is the solid and the outside is the outside..this is where new problems occur and why I think I can't print a hollow model.
Looking at Pats video , when an offset is created to the inside in tight corners the mesh crosses itself and thus confuses the software to the point it doesn't know if that area is inside or outside as it breaks the rules for this definition, hence sending to the printer ends in errors.
Manipulation can overcome this crossing of swords/ particle beams / CAD but I'm asking myself how quickly and time efficiently.
This also answers my question as to a coping being made. It's all added to the outside and the offset lines radiate away from each other because the shape is convex. The mesh lines don't cross and so fit within the rules of what is a shape.
I hope I'm making sense because I think I've confused myself;)
Will take members advice and give Scott a message.
It would be great if any 3D printer gurus have a solution.
 
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DentalAxess

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Hi Patrick,

Since the 3Shape Ortho System only will allow you to export solid models we can look at hollowing them out in CAM.
CAMBridge from 3Shape has this capability and offer support for a number of printers as well as generic RPD printer support / stl output.
It integrates well with Ortho System and have a function to hollow the model and you can decide on wall thickness, material support etc.

Per
 
Betalab

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It's really a great feeling to find some answers given guidance by the wise and clever. It's taken some time and I have been given videos to watch and things to mull over in my sleep. The best gift I got was a toolbox from Scott and it opened a new world for me. My 3D printer guys are really happy and the bottom line is better. Thanks for everyone's input on this topic and I made a video to celebrate. Thanks to Patmos who gave me an appreciation of things non gypsum.
Digital Orthodontic Study Models Part 1 (Hollowing out) - YouTube

-patrick
 
chief26

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I Have A Dr Who Went With The Scanned Models. When He Has Them Printed Its A Different Price For Basically Just The Teeth Verses A Based Model. I Was Told Based Models Were Expensive. I Have Been Doing Alot Of Research So When I Do Get A System, I Am Getting What I Need. It Is All Very Confusing. But, Seems The Thing To Do Is To Charge For How Much Material They Want.
 
Betalab

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I Have A Dr Who Went With The Scanned Models. When He Has Them Printed Its A Different Price For Basically Just The Teeth Verses A Based Model. I Was Told Based Models Were Expensive. I Have Been Doing Alot Of Research So When I Do Get A System, I Am Getting What I Need. It Is All Very Confusing. But, Seems The Thing To Do Is To Charge For How Much Material They Want.

If the study models still look big and how they want with no visual compromise but the material usage and cost is down 70% then I feel that's great. It won't become any cheaper until printers and materials get cheaper.
 
Betalab

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I got a little more excited about the modification of stl files so i played round with a few more tools. Looking forward to see what the prints come out like and will post a report later. Runners are EOS vs envisiontech vs 3D systems vs Objet will keep you posted. This is what we did this week with hollow models.
Digital Orthodontic Study Models Part2 (Customising) - YouTube

- patrick
 

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