This is how we make a cad denture.

rkm rdt

rkm rdt

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I think cad dentures will be the springboard for intraoral scanning.

Give me a better material than pmma and I can make one now.
 
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TECHARTISAN

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I come here to try and learn new information, however I find myself on some sort of scienctific fantasy land? The video was informative yet he scanned an already made object not something abstract to begin with! As if we have not run into cases that want a "facelift " at the same time! bulk out the wax need more support! Now the nuts and bolts of it:
1-cost factor-start-up cost 1,000,000$ on a technique safely guarded! one one company doing such as stated in video.
2- convince every Dr to spend another 100,000$ on scanning devises
3- can the product be repaired in 24 hrs or less? relined overnight?
4- wear ablility ?
5- easly adjusted for fit upon insertion?
6- one of many question I have for the technology?

Zcorp is but one of many companies working in additive technologies(my response to numbered point 1)...and frankly their product offerings are some of the most primitive in terms of results. The video was frankly a poor example of the capabilities of the current state of the technology. [my response to the numbered lists preface]

A more relevant example would be to examine the workflow of Invisilign.

Using the same technology, and workflow....it is not hard to imagine the applicability to our field with minor adjustment....
1. Doctor takes impressions (richer clinics intraoral scan)[point 2]
2. Impressions are digitized (in dental clinic, in your lab, or in a regional scanning center in the case of a megacorp lab dominating the field)[point 2]
3. a lab tech or possibly a data center not unlike theirs in Costa Rica performs setup.[my response to the prefaces implication that customization is somehow ellusive]
This is where a slight departure from invisilign proceedure would come in...rather then a series of a dozen or more models representing an entire treatment plan being fabricated....

4. Using a multiple material 3d printer both teeth and baseplate are printed. Objet already produces printers that are capable of this, as has been mentioned in this thread, Their only holdup is jumping through regulatory loops in material approval.

Alternatively....a more drawn out fabrication proceedure using additive manufacturing systems constrained by single material per build technologies would flow more like this....
4a. Either a tooth shade SLA resin is used to fabricate the arch(s)....or a sacrificial toothform is printed and injected as seen in PressOnSmiles video
4b. An acrylic compatable nonbonding resin is SLA fabricated to form a thin mold shell that will accept the formed tooth arch and allow baseplate resin injection
4c. a simular "shell" is formed to provide the tissue side detail.
4d. a denture is injected in a process not unlike todays dentures....repairable relinable etc etc

Points 3-5 are a simple issue of material selection. Point 6 is negligible as its merely a placeholder to continue to find issues of contention

Meanwhile--I am going back to my old habit of looking at pretty woman-NAKED! and stop waisting my time reading this stuff . :)

Cant see any way this discussion can be seen as any more of a waste then the discussion of using 3dPrinters in C&B would have been a few years ago....additive manufacturing technologies are just a turn of the clocks hands from the removable field as well.

P.S. What are you all going to do when science does away with tooth lose or cavities only a few years away!

While I hope watching invisilgns video makes the potential reality of digitally fabricated dentures more believable...and the possibility for a mass produced custom tailored product by a major corporation a bit more concerning....in regards to...

P.S. What are you all going to do when science does away with tooth lose or cavities only a few years away!

Allow me to be repetitive....

Even if/when perfected, such options will be at the top echelon of treatment plans. The solution for the wealthy few. It will never be the treatment of the masses. Removables will never go away. The largest market sector for tooth replacement will always be those who cannot or can barely afford dental services.
 
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VictoryDental

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Hoax

I think this whole thing is a hoax.

In order to make a "working wrench" they would have had to scan the wrench in 4 pieces.

The main wrench frame,
the adjustable jaw,
the adjustment thumb screw,
and the thumb screw pin.

Print them and then assembled them.

It would be IMPOSSIBLE for it to be done as shown!!

NOT to mention the ring on the end of the crescent wrench handle is not even similar !!
 
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CoolHandLuke

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you saw it yourself, the dude requested the change of colour on the thumbscrew. he likewise could have requested the change to the hole in the end, and the designers could likewise have said to him "we will have to create [extrapolate/interpolate] the inner parts of the wrench which can't be scanned (i.e. the slide, the journals for the thumbscrew)"

but no, this is not at all fake. this technology has been around believe it or not since the 70's.

this very issue was at the heart of the controversy in the robotics world when the USA went into its recession in the 80's, when we first saw China rear its great ugly head.
 
rkm rdt

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I think this whole thing is a hoax.

In order to make a "working wrench" they would have had to scan the wrench in 4 pieces.

The main wrench frame,
the adjustable jaw,
the adjustment thumb screw,
and the thumb screw pin.

Print them and then assembled them.

It would be IMPOSSIBLE for it to be done as shown!!

NOT to mention the ring on the end of the crescent wrench handle is not even similar !!

What does that have to do with printing a denture?
 
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VictoryDental: Thanks for the heads up. After going back to watch the video again I did see the difference. The threads although red were not as percise as orginal and the ring was different. I guess I better order another bucket of Lucitone 199, wax, and teeth, and put off retirement! Jesus and I was thinking scan it-print it-and have a cold beer while waiting for it to print and presto Denture!
 
rkm rdt

rkm rdt

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Can't fool you denture guys!
 
rkm rdt

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Awsome Mark,

Do you think they would be willing to work with other labs?:D
 
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VictoryDental

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What does that have to do with printing a denture?

EVERYTHING! IT is deceptive at its best.

The print cartridge that was shown is a standard HP print cartridge.

They only scanned the top side of the wrench and yet they produced a wrench with all of the detail (supposedly) which was the bottom side.

SO, are they going to scan a denture into the system and reproduce it or will they load a digital impression into the system and reproduce it?

If they scan a denture WHO MADE THE DENTURE? I bet one of the good ole denture techs who have been making them anyway.
 
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VictoryDental

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Tom Moore

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I plan on being at their presentation in Dallas this month. This looks like a big step in the right direction.
 
JohnWilson

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Very interesting, from the video it mills the base and sockets to place denture teeth, I assume it has a scanned library of denture teeth that will work with the software. I wonder how they address situations where the ridge does not allow a non modified stock tooth to be in the correct position??? Are they using some sort of cyno to lute the teeth into place? That tube in the video looks like composite??

Will be looking for a seminar when it comes to the west.
 
DMC

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I have thought of many ways of doing this exact thing.

Why not? Where is my removable software??

ExoCAD? 3Shape? DentalWings?

(Video is funny as heck!)

WTF is this scientific measuring device?? LOL

Did it come off the side of a cereal box with a prize inside?


ai930.photobucket.com_albums_ad145_turbo2nr_avadent.jpg
ai930.photobucket.com_albums_ad145_turbo2nr_avadent.jpg
 
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Tom Moore

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Very interesting, from the video it mills the base and sockets to place denture teeth, I assume it has a scanned library of denture teeth that will work with the software. I wonder how they address situations where the ridge does not allow a non modified stock tooth to be in the correct position??? Are they using some sort of cyno to lute the teeth into place? That tube in the video looks like composite??

Will be looking for a seminar when it comes to the west.

I'm guessing it will grind teeth in the digital world and make a matrix to put those teeth into so the tissue side can be milled to fit the sockets that fit the modified digital setup.

I want to see the color of the base and what its made from and what sort of clinical trials. The base looks to be very monochromatic.

I also want to see some information on how the teeth are fixed to the base and hopefully some research on bonding strength.
 
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TECHARTISAN

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My curiosity runs towards price...first the price of their startup kit....second the price of their proprietary materials.....and finally to the price per unit. Id also like to know if they have a partials department.

Oh and while Im throwing random curiosity to the winds....I wonder how many techs they have...and if theyre hiring:D

I really expected a printed base more than a milled one...still quite cool.
 
CoolHandLuke

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EVERYTHING! IT is deceptive at its best.

The print cartridge that was shown is a standard HP print cartridge.

They only scanned the top side of the wrench and yet they produced a wrench with all of the detail (supposedly) which was the bottom side.

SO, are they going to scan a denture into the system and reproduce it or will they load a digital impression into the system and reproduce it?

If they scan a denture WHO MADE THE DENTURE? I bet one of the good ole denture techs who have been making them anyway.

i think you misunderstand... the cartridge shown was to give the items their pigmented colours, a la red thumbscrew, and coloured objects you saw on the table. they specifically mention theres a second print head that they wont show, to clot the material into layered shapes. if you listen to what he says its mentioned that these are "like" the regular ink cartidges.

they showed an expedient quick scan, that in all probability actually took a few minutes to do, and as mentioned before would need some interpellation in order to print the product in its final form.

all this aside, the thing you saw was for duplicating items - when in our profession do you ever use two identical dentures or crowns? never, sir. so no, you wont be scanning anything, you will be designing your removable on the CAD system, and having that system print out the product you desire.

if so be you desire to print simply the teeth to manually set in acryllic then that is your prerogative of course. far be it from me to tell you that you can save time by not trimming those teeth (and money) to set in the acryllic, nor let me count for you the cost of a printed denture vs the cost of a handmade denture.

theres no need to jump on this as a hoax, clearly it isnt, as theres members on the boards here who have been printing things since i were but a twinkle in me mothers eye.

you can ask Scott (***) for a demo i suppose, he's got several printing machines; theres printers on ebay for sale right now, and theres companies around the globe working on HIGHER tech than the thing you saw in the video above.

it may be tough to believe, sir, but its just a sign of your age.
 
TomZ

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Denture milling... brought to you by the same people who brought you Invisalign
 

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