Staining systems

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CWilliams

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I use ivocolor combined with noritake czr paste stains- I find the CZR blends better and has a more natural look out of the two sometimes, and their glaze creates a better finish than ivocolor. I use ivocolor internally when doing cutbacks/ build ups (I use emax ceram). I have to say I'm not wild about it and it takes some time to figure out application of the stains- some can be grainy. I'm also not wild about emax ceram- tends to look grey. Before even getting to surface staining, I think infiltrating the green state as accurately as possible and having a system that is reliable and predictable is key, that's why I'm looking to upgrade to Art Orals ZR ceramics this year and add miyo to my drawer to compliment the ZR I use.
 
sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

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I have MiYo. I find it challenging to use. I struggle to perfect my technique using it as a surface stain on my monolithic zirconia. I was told it wouldn't work as an internal stain option.

I have been using Ivoclar's shade pastes but I'm not happy with the look of it when used on the surface as a correction stain.
not sure who told you miyo wouldnt work as an internal stain but theres a vast video library showing the contrary.

i suggest miyo, and ivocolor. ive used lots out there and these are the two i use daily.
 
sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

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I use and Ivoclar Prime ML, Armann Girbach FX multi and HT+ . My clients request the zirconia they want me to use. One dentist wants facial cutbacks for layered porcelain, so I don't use MiYO on his cases.

My trouble with the MiYO is mastering the technique of applying the glaze properly, in the right amount and then evenly blending the shade with the glaze. I don't use the Structure much. It also feels awkward in my hands. I admit that the pressure to get the work out the door keeps me from using MiYO. No practice, no mastery.:banghead:

What advice could you give me regarding selecting the zirconia shade? I usually pick one shade lighter than the prescribed shade. Usually end up with less than ideal shade match.

I have talked with Terry at Jensen and watched their videos. Wish he could sit at my side and advise me
dont make your zirc one shade lighter. if anything one shade darker. why? zirc doesnt absorb light, it reflects it all. so it ends up looking brighter in the cavern of the mouth. (my general take and experience.)

ill expound on ivocolor a bit too. unlike Miyo and a bunch of other stains, its not a single stain for a group of shades.... IMHO a stain for A1 doesnt work for A3.5 and A4. so ivocolor does a great job offering many stains for most shade groups instead of trying to make a one-size-fits-all group stain.
 
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66Stang

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Restorationlab, give a call to Jensen and talk with Terry McQuiston @ tech support.
Thanks Charles. Terry can definitely lend a hand Restorationlab. MiYO is made for monolithic restorations (But can be used in other ways too) so you should be capable of achieving anything you want on monolithic zirconia, or LD for that matter.
 
Restorationlab

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First of all there are other techs that may have much better advice than me but here are my thoughts. Throw out the way you used regular stains in years past. Watch some of the videos again while trying to duplicate what your seeing in the video's. Glaze paste is the easiest problem to solve, don't over dilute with liquid. Use a 2 firing technique as rkm suggested, or get use to sometimes having to glaze again over unglazed spots.

Don't understand the idea of using 1 shade lighter zirconia or LD shade since shades may come out slightly lighter anyway. This may solve some of your problems ? Maybe seeing a value problem using lighter shades, and MiYO is great at correcting value and chroma.

Your using some of the best zirconia I know of so I would fine tune your sintering techniques, and maybe the shades match very well already ? Your statement makes me think your milled zirconia shades are off right out of your mill ? or maybe using wrong MiYO colors trying to match shades ?

There's a video Terry made mainly talking about using Smoke and Storm, this video may help in learning how to apply MiYO. PM me your email address and I will forward the link of this particular video. Also take notes on Terry's MiYO formula for enamels colors.

Not trying to talk you out of using MiYO, but since you feel rushed to get cases out, I will share this. I bought the InSync kit several months after Jensen released it years ago and later bought MiYO not long after it came out. To be honest InSync is faster to use and gives very nice results, but its a stain, unlike MiYO thats 80% ceramic. Once I bought MiYO I stopped using InSync for that reason, 80% ceramic. MiYO not going to wear off like regular stains can,, plus you can apply colors on top of color. Will say InSync stains are very thick unlike many stains so I wouldn't worry about InSync wearing off.
Good luck with MiYO and hope to hear back soon with any changes you may make in you techniques, and maybe using new MiYO brushes...
Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I don't mill or sinter. I rely on another lab to do that for me. Unless the final shade is in the A or B ranges I find the sintered zirconia shade to be off from my shade tabs. Each sintered zirconia crown comes to me needing some shading adjustment. The MiYO shades also don't seem to be true to my shade tabs either. I recognize that there is interference from the sintered zirconia which I struggle with no matter what staining system I am using. I'm wanting to know how everyone else handles this issue. I spent good money on the MiYO system and am very disappointed that I am having so much trouble using it.

I don't seem to be able to PM you. I may need to make contact with Terry again. I looked at the brush set available from Jensen. It looks like part of my problem may be the brushes I am currently using. It will be worth investing in that kit.
 
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charles007

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Just sent pm to you !
Charles
 
sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

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Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I don't mill or sinter. I rely on another lab to do that for me. Unless the final shade is in the A or B ranges I find the sintered zirconia shade to be off from my shade tabs. Each sintered zirconia crown comes to me needing some shading adjustment. The MiYO shades also don't seem to be true to my shade tabs either. I recognize that there is interference from the sintered zirconia which I struggle with no matter what staining system I am using. I'm wanting to know how everyone else handles this issue. I spent good money on the MiYO system and am very disappointed that I am having so much trouble using it.

I don't seem to be able to PM you. I may need to make contact with Terry again. I looked at the brush set available from Jensen. It looks like part of my problem may be the brushes I am currently using. It will be worth investing in that kit.
sounds like you need better milling lab.
shoot me a message, ill mill you a test couple units.

*edit* youve made 5 posts now, you can PM
 
Sda36

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dont make your zirc one shade lighter. if anything one shade darker. why? zirc doesnt absorb light, it reflects it all. so it ends up looking brighter in the cavern of the mouth. (my general take and experience.)

ill expound on ivocolor a bit too. unlike Miyo and a bunch of other stains, its not a single stain for a group of shades.... IMHO a stain for A1 doesnt work for A3.5 and A4. so ivocolor does a great job offering many stains for most shade groups instead of trying to make a one-size-fits-all group stain.
I'm thinking the one shade lighter is a suggestion if you are only going to polish the crown. As an example, you would shade for A1 and after polish its more A2. Maybe this concept got mixed up somewhere in our" jungle of things" to keep track of. Also if you do polish only forget about having any florescence in your crown. I have polished the occasional occlusal surface due to space limitations only.
 
Restorationlab

Restorationlab

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I'm thinking the one shade lighter is a suggestion if you are only going to polish the crown. As an example, you would shade for A1 and after polish its more A2. Maybe this concept got mixed up somewhere in our" jungle of things" to keep track of. Also if you do polish only forget about having any florescence in your crown. I have polished the occasional occlusal surface due to space limitations only.
I was thinking that one shade lighter would have less interference with final shade needed for case. Doesn't always work. I always surface stain and glaze my zirconia crowns.
 
RDA

RDA

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I have MiYo. I find it challenging to use. I struggle to perfect my technique using it as a surface stain on my monolithic zirconia. I was told it wouldn't work as an internal stain option.

I have been using Ivoclar's shade pastes but I'm not happy with the look of it when used on the surface as a correction stain.
 
Sda36

Sda36

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I was thinking that one shade lighter would have less interference with final shade needed for case. Doesn't always work. I always surface stain and glaze my zirconia crowns.
Ya, I find glazing raises the value, lowers the chroma but that's just how I approach it. I think like you, don't want to strong, higher chroma with lower value.
 
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FASTFNGR

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I am looking for a internal and surface staining/shading system for monolithic zirconia, PFMs and layered lithium disilicate. I use emax Ceram to layer facial cutbacks on my zirconia crowns, GC Initial to layer on lithium disilicate and GC MC to layer my PFMs.

I am looking for recommendations/opinions on the current staining systems out there.

I appreciate your comments.
GC luster paste since you use GC product and easy to use.
I am looking for a internal and surface staining/shading system for monolithic zirconia, PFMs and layered lithium disilicate. I use emax Ceram to layer facial cutbacks on my zirconia crowns, GC Initial to layer on lithium disilicate and GC MC to layer my PFMs.

I am looking for recommendations/opinions on the current staining systems out there.

I appreciate your
 

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