Staining systems

[Restorationlab]

I am looking for a internal and surface staining/shading system for monolithic zirconia, PFMs and layered lithium disilicate. I use emax Ceram to layer facial cutbacks on my zirconia crowns, GC Initial to layer on lithium disilicate and GC MC to layer my PFMs.

I am looking for recommendations/opinions on the current staining systems out there.

I appreciate your comments.

 

[rkm rdt]

Miyo

 

[Restorationlab]

I have MiYo. I find it challenging to use. I struggle to perfect my technique using it as a surface stain on my monolithic zirconia. I was told it wouldn't work as an internal stain option.

I have been using Ivoclar's shade pastes but I'm not happy with the look of it when used on the surface as a correction stain.

 

[Car 54]

Maybe the Shofu stain system (powder)? https://www.shofu.de/en/vintage-art-universal-the-new-universal-stain-and-glaze-system/

I have an easier time and get better results with InSync, myself. Yet there are MiYO shades that save the day for me, like Lumin Plus, and Slate.

As far as an absolute internal stain, would probably be Noritake line up of internal stains, which I use for internal staining, washing with Neutral, my emax
layered units. I think you can still use it on the surface without any problem, as I routinely use their orange internal stain for my occlusal fosse.

 

[Restorationlab]

I like the Lumin in the MiYo kit myself. I'll look into those stain systems. I think Noritake fires at a higher temperature than my porcelains.

Have you tried the Ivocolor system?

 

[Car 54]

The Noritake Cerabien ZR fires at a lower temp, 750c I'm using the powder version, if they still make it compared to the pastes.

CERABIEN ZR FC Paste Stain | The new Surface Stain for Zirconia

The addition of a new paste-type FC Paste Stain (a surface stain) to the CERABIEN ZR line allows the easy characterization of full-zirconia restorations.

www.kuraraynoritake.eu

Haven't tried Ivocolor.

 

[Restorationlab]

Thanks for your comments.

 

[Car 54]

Hang in there though, as I believe a couple members here use Ivocolor, as it may be more in line with what you're wanting to do with it.

 

[Restorationlab]

Maybe they will chime in at some point.

 

[charles007]

I have MiYo. I find it challenging to use. I struggle to perfect my technique using it as a surface stain on my monolithic zirconia. I was told it wouldn't work as an internal stain option.

I have been using Ivoclar's shade pastes but I'm not happy with the look of it when used on the surface as a correction stain.

Please share what zirconia your using with MiYO that your not pleased with, and are you using MiYO Structure ? I consider myself slightly above an average tech and MiYo makes my fcz look layered and will fool many untrained eyes. But I've never used less translucent zirconia's/cheaper zirconia with MiYO. Today I was in an office and saw a zirconia crown in Alien HT....... made me think it was 2010 again, and how much Miyo would have helped back then.. lol

 

[Car 54]

I think OP is also looking for an internal/external stain for pfm's, to cover all the bases?

 

[rkm rdt]

I have MiYo. I find it challenging to use. I struggle to perfect my technique using it as a surface stain on my monolithic zirconia. I was told it wouldn't work as an internal stain option.

I have been using Ivoclar's shade pastes but I'm not happy with the look of it when used on the surface as a correction stain.

Whoever told you it can't be used as an internal stain is incorrect.
Try firing MIYO in 2 stages until,you get the hang of it. You need some good fine stiff brushes as well.

 

[charles007]

Restorationlab, give a call to Jensen and talk with Terry McQuiston @ tech support.

 

[ps2thtec]

I am looking for a internal and surface staining/shading system for monolithic zirconia, PFMs and layered lithium disilicate. I use emax Ceram to layer facial cutbacks on my zirconia crowns, GC Initial to layer on lithium disilicate and GC MC to layer my PFMs.

I am looking for recommendations/opinions on the current staining systems out there.

I appreciate your comments.

I use ivocolor, empress , eMax, and some Artistains. Mix and match what suits the case.
Have had no problem when used for internal. Used on pfm inLine porcelain/opq, vm9 for pfz also..

 

[Restorationlab]

Please share what zirconia your using with MiYO that your not pleased with, and are you using MiYO Structure ? I consider myself slightly above an average tech and MiYo makes my fcz look layered and will fool many untrained eyes. But I've never used less translucent zirconia's/cheaper zirconia with MiYO. Today I was in an office and saw a zirconia crown in Alien HT....... made me think it was 2010 again, and how much Miyo would have helped back then.. lol

I use and Ivoclar Prime ML, Armann Girbach FX multi and HT+ . My clients request the zirconia they want me to use. One dentist wants facial cutbacks for layered porcelain, so I don't use MiYO on his cases.

My trouble with the MiYO is mastering the technique of applying the glaze properly, in the right amount and then evenly blending the shade with the glaze. I don't use the Structure much. It also feels awkward in my hands. I admit that the pressure to get the work out the door keeps me from using MiYO. No practice, no mastery.

What advice could you give me regarding selecting the zirconia shade? I usually pick one shade lighter than the prescribed shade. Usually end up with less than ideal shade match.

I have talked with Terry at Jensen and watched their videos. Wish he could sit at my side and advise me.

 

[Restorationlab]

Whoever told you it can't be used as an internal stain is incorrect.
Try firing MIYO in 2 stages until,you get the hang of it. You need some good fine stiff brushes as well.

What brushes would you recommend? Jensen had no recommendation for me when I purchased the system.

 

[charles007]

Jensen now has a MiYO brush set.

 

[charles007]

I use and Ivoclar Prime ML, Armann Girbach FX multi and HT+ . My clients request the zirconia they want me to use. One dentist wants facial cutbacks for layered porcelain, so I don't use MiYO on his cases.

My trouble with the MiYO is mastering the technique of applying the glaze properly, in the right amount and then evenly blending the shade with the glaze. I don't use the Structure much. It also feels awkward in my hands. I admit that the pressure to get the work out the door keeps me from using MiYO. No practice, no mastery.

What advice could you give me regarding selecting the zirconia shade? I usually pick one shade lighter than the prescribed shade. Usually end up with less than ideal shade match.

I have talked with Terry at Jensen and watched their videos. Wish he could sit at my side and advise me.

First of all there are other techs that may have much better advice than me but here are my thoughts. Throw out the way you used regular stains in years past. Watch some of the videos again while trying to duplicate what your seeing in the video's. Glaze paste is the easiest problem to solve, don't over dilute with liquid. Use a 2 firing technique as rkm suggested, or get use to sometimes having to glaze again over unglazed spots.

Don't understand the idea of using 1 shade lighter zirconia or LD shade since shades may come out slightly lighter anyway. This may solve some of your problems ? Maybe seeing a value problem using lighter shades, and MiYO is great at correcting value and chroma.

Your using some of the best zirconia I know of so I would fine tune your sintering techniques, and maybe the shades match very well already ? Your statement makes me think your milled zirconia shades are off right out of your mill ? or maybe using wrong MiYO colors trying to match shades ?

There's a video Terry made mainly talking about using Smoke and Storm, this video may help in learning how to apply MiYO. PM me your email address and I will forward the link of this particular video. Also take notes on Terry's MiYO formula for enamels colors.

Not trying to talk you out of using MiYO, but since you feel rushed to get cases out, I will share this. I bought the InSync kit several months after Jensen released it years ago and later bought MiYO not long after it came out. To be honest InSync is faster to use and gives very nice results, but its a stain, unlike MiYO thats 80% ceramic. Once I bought MiYO I stopped using InSync for that reason, 80% ceramic. MiYO not going to wear off like regular stains can,, plus you can apply colors on top of color. Will say InSync stains are very thick unlike many stains so I wouldn't worry about InSync wearing off.
Good luck with MiYO and hope to hear back soon with any changes you may make in you techniques, and maybe using new MiYO brushes...

 

[rkm rdt]

I use and Ivoclar Prime ML, Armann Girbach FX multi and HT+ . My clients request the zirconia they want me to use. One dentist wants facial cutbacks for layered porcelain, so I don't use MiYO on his cases.

My trouble with the MiYO is mastering the technique of applying the glaze properly, in the right amount and then evenly blending the shade with the glaze. I don't use the Structure much. It also feels awkward in my hands. I admit that the pressure to get the work out the door keeps me from using MiYO. No practice, no mastery.

What advice could you give me regarding selecting the zirconia shade? I usually pick one shade lighter than the prescribed shade. Usually end up with less than ideal shade match.

I have talked with Terry at Jensen and watched their videos. Wish he could sit at my side and advise me.

Your clients tell you what zirconia to use?

 

[Car 54]

Your clients tell you what zirconia to use?

Good point. We need to be telling our accounts what zirconia we use and why, from our own research and understanding of what zirconia to use where and why. For bridges, singles and for cut back. Otherwise, they could have us running in circles as far as the newest promotion they hear about, wanting us to use or change to, when it can be the wrong indication of zirconia for a given restoration.

Getting their feedback is different thing, as far as what they see in the mouth and what we can do to improve it.