Semi- Precious

C

charles007

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I'm looking for recommendations for semi-precious metal for crown n bridge. I've been using Euro from Argen forever. But am now looking for something less expensive for a new client .
I agree with Doug, plus I think casting inhouse is now old school in the digital age. With the higher cost of alloys, stocking cost of high priced alloys, extra labor and materials, todays small lab may want to rethink casting inhouse. Can't imagine Pd or Au ever again dropping back in the $300 to $500. range. My go to Noble alloy has been Jensens Superior and earlier used Agens Argelite 61. These are, were, great lower cost Noble alloys until Pd hit the roof. Even with the Density so low its still high cost to cast at todays Pd price. Low Au, HN lower Density alloys are more practically $$ wise over Noble at this time of metal prices.
Never tried Pt Plus, but looks interesting.
Look at SLM for your pfms needs which is improved from years ago, and milled alloys. Personally I would stop casing inhouse and convince doctors to go metal free, using premium zirconias and LD. For those doctors still doing Pfms/Full cast crowns, use milled alloys and SLM using HN, N, or NP/Base. Not the greatest fan of printed/DPM even though I've used for years with good results.
 
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sndmn2

sndmn2

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I agree with Doug, plus I think casting inhouse is now old school in the digital age. With the higher cost of alloys, stocking cost of high priced alloys, extra labor and materials, todays small lab may want to rethink casting inhouse. Can't imagine Pd or Au ever again dropping back in the $300 to $500. range. My go to Noble alloy has been Jensens Superior and earlier used Agens Argelite 61. These are, were, great lower cost Noble alloys until Pd hit the roof. Even with the Density so low its still high cost to cast at todays Pd price. Low Au, HN lower Density alloys are more practically $$ wise over Noble at this time of metal prices.
Never tried Pt Plus, but looks interesting.
Look at SLM for your pfms needs which is improved from years ago, and milled alloys. Personally I would stop casing inhouse and convince doctors to go metal free, using premium zirconias and LD. For those doctors still doing Pfms/Full cast crowns, use milled alloys and SLM using HN, N, or NP/Base. Not the greatest fan of printed/DPM even though I've used for years with good results.
I agree. But some things SLM cant do. Cant do Richmand type crown. And I have yet to get the marginal integrity or fit with SLM that I can get with milled or hand waxing. And the surface texture sorta reminds me of Mich. roads. I'll still do SLM but for my own peace of mind
( what little I have left) I want to know how to cast it.
 
JMN

JMN

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I agree. But some things SLM cant do. Cant do Richmand type crown. And I have yet to get the marginal integrity or fit with SLM that I can get with milled or hand waxing. And the surface texture sorta reminds me of Mich. roads. I'll still do SLM but for my own peace of mind
( what little I have left) I want to know how to cast it.
Hadn't heard of a Richmand crown. What is it for/do?
 
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sndmn2

sndmn2

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Hadn't heard of a Richmand crown. What is it for/do?
Its when you combine both a post and coping/crown as one unit. Or at least that is what I have always known it to be called. Then again that Greek guy I was working for back then could have just made up this name.
 
K

kshim

Member
Difficult to cast, and obtain proper oxide, porcelain cracking problem, went back to argen noble crown nf no problems
hello saluki,
i'm trying platinum plus and also having casting issues. is casting noble nf like casting non-precious? i'm used to casting precious alloys so it feels scary having to heat to such a high temp. also is the cost similar to platinum plus?
thanks!
 
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sndmn2

sndmn2

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It is a little tricky for sure. It does not pool up like a gold or say a 50% pfm metal. It will slump. You will have to learn to trust the slump like a Rexiliium 3 slump. The torch has to be blazing and loud. Thats the best way I can explain it. You'll have to come up with a technique. For me its after it slumps, count to about 45 or so and let it rip. Pretty scientific I know . Preheat the crucible with the ring. . Use an eight gauge sprue on singles . I go direct, not on a runner bar. The metal sets fast. As far as applying porcelain. I was getting some blow outs. After talking to Argen rep he said to try Ceram Bond by Bredent as a first opaque bake . So far that seems to be working for me. But I still do mostly SLM. When finishing I hit it first with a carbide and then a stone.
 
Saluki

Saluki

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We use GC porcelain and were having checking issues. And just discovered that Argen now recommends a bonder1st coat, before opaque. Other casting issues are pitting and even suck back on Pontics. They did their testing using ceramco porcelain which sticks to anything. Other porcelains were also having issues. For saving only $8.50 per dwt. I will stay with N F which we were told will eventually be discontinued. 😩
 
P

Presswood

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I am trying the Argen Platinum Plus. 4th attempt was a charm.. What I learned along the way.
pre heat crucible
1/4 to 1/2 inch inner torch cones
keep flame 1 1/2 inch away
use an 8g sprue
try not to remove flame from metal while melting.
ingots will not flow into one ball, more like casting Rex 3.. cast after it slumps like a jelly bean ,,If the metal rolls in the crucible its to hot.
Hello, I just cast my first case with platinum plus, I used 100% liquid with creampress investment & fit was Way tight. What investment gets enough expansion for this alloy?
Thanks!!
 
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sndmn2

sndmn2

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Hello, I just cast my first case with platinum plus, I used 100% liquid with creampress investment & fit was Way tight. What investment gets enough expansion for this alloy?
Thanks!!
I'm just using Henry Schein . I have been using it for years. I think my liquid is around 13-15 to 25 .. Depending on if I have my glasses on. If you want shoot me an address and I'll send you a couple to try. Or I'm sure Shein will send you a couple packs to try.
 
K

kshim

Member
i was wondering why copings were tight. i'm also using henry schein and in the instructions it says pure liquid (24cc) for non precious. i was doing 16/9 which i use for Argelite 61. i don't know if i'll go pure but will try maybe 18/7?
Thank you everyone, by the way, for the info/quick responses!
 
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GG - J

GG - J

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We use GC porcelain and were having checking issues. And just discovered that Argen now recommends a bonder1st coat, before opaque. Other casting issues are pitting and even suck back on Pontics. They did their testing using ceramco porcelain which sticks to anything. Other porcelains were also having issues. For saving only $8.50 per dwt. I will stay with N F which we were told will eventually be discontinued. 😩
Gc has always recommend a bonder back
With their colour coupler paste prior to opaquing
 
erics24k

erics24k

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Full Member
We use GC porcelain and were having checking issues. And just discovered that Argen now recommends a bonder1st coat, before opaque. Other casting issues are pitting and even suck back on Pontics. They did their testing using ceramco porcelain which sticks to anything. Other porcelains were also having issues. For saving only $8.50 per dwt. I will stay with N F which we were told will eventually be discontinued. 😩
hello saluki,
i'm trying platinum plus and also having casting issues. is casting noble nf like casting non-precious? i'm used to casting precious alloys so it feels scary having to heat to such a high temp. also is the cost similar to platinum plus?
thanks!
Casting Platinum Plus by Argen:
 
aidihra

aidihra

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I've been using the Platinum Plus lately and I hate it. It's very similar to non-precious metal and hard to trim. Argen needs to come out with a platinum based noble metal for pfm.
 
P

perkmark

Member
slm platinum + still fits way tight . don't think cc checks fit
 
C

charles007

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slm platinum + still fits way tight . don't think cc checks fit
Tweak your cad setting until you get the kind of fits your looking for. Remember the "prep" will always dictate the fit, be it digital or analog.
Can't use one setting on all preps and expect the same fits on all cases. It goes without saying the digital world is so different than analog and sometimes analog is the best solution for certain preps using certain materials. We must all use our cad skills to our advantage to work around imperfect preps to prevent remakes.
Something that's rarely said is over milling of zirconia, so learn how to prevent loose crowns which also means getting good preps milled on a precision milling machine.

Spelling Edit...... :)
 
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JMN

JMN

Christian Member
Staff member
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Tweet your cad setting until you get the kind of fits your looking for. Remember the "prep" will always dictate the fit, be it digital or analog.
Can't use one setting on all preps and expect the same fits on all cases. It goes without saying the digital world is so different than analog and sometimes analog is the best solution for certain preps using certain materials. We must all use our cad skills to our advantage to work around imperfect preps to prevent remakes.
Something that's rarely said is over milling of zirconia, so learn how to prevent loose crowns which also means getting good preps milled on a precision milling machine.
I'm guessing you typed tweak instead of tweet. Auto corrupt strikes again.
 
C

charles007

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lol....
if the truth were told my fingers can't spell typing in a recliner late at night
 
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Pronto

Pronto

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We experimented for years with different PD/AG alloys for pfms. They all sucked. Finally we just told the drs we are using Argen 52SF high noble for pfgs and that is that. If they don't want pay the price they can use zirconia or emax. No way are we going to play with a new crappy PT alloy. At some point you have to put your foot down and tell them you won't work with that junk. PD is not a bargain anymore so it doesn't matter anyway.
We call those Richmond crowns a post crown. They never fit right so we told the drs we will only do a separate post and core and crown over. Magically the fit and margin seal was solved. Duh.
 
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