what's the best printer out there?

[NoName]

Hey, I don't print anything, but I am looking into it, might buy something, but I'm curious what's the best printer out there and how's the quality compared to our old ways of making things? Because right now I can see that people are printing splints, temporary crowns, even removable dentures, but there's always catch to it, for example temporary crowns are poor quality, so are the dentures..at least that's what I've heard, specially the temporary crowns, doctors say that they're very poor quality and you can't even compare to let's say cold cure made ones, so I'm wondering is it really worth it? Because I'd have to invest I'm guessing at least like 5k euro for something half decent and then I'd get poor quality on probably everything, so please tell me is it worth it? does it save time, does it produce good results or should I wait for some better technology?

 

[Chiolo C]

Print splints should be no problem, if you find the right liquid. (we use Heygears)
it does that hard to get excellent shade to print temporary or denture teeth, but can works if patient don't care
we usually use PMMA mill the teeth and just print pink denture base, PMMA has better shade than stock resin teeth.

 

[JonnyLathe]

There is no best printer really.

That being said, I love Asiga. It's easy to use, accurate, and open source with resins.

We print temp crowns that are light-years better than cold cure.

 

[dentallabmne]

For us its definitely sprintray, doesn't take long and is compatible with a lot of resins, so you don't have to be limited to theirs only

 

[Contraluz]

Hey, I don't print anything, but I am looking into it, might buy something, but I'm curious what's the best printer out there and how's the quality compared to our old ways of making things? Because right now I can see that people are printing splints, temporary crowns, even removable dentures, but there's always catch to it, for example temporary crowns are poor quality, so are the dentures..at least that's what I've heard, specially the temporary crowns, doctors say that they're very poor quality and you can't even compare to let's say cold cure made ones, so I'm wondering is it really worth it? Because I'd have to invest I'm guessing at least like 5k euro for something half decent and then I'd get poor quality on probably everything, so please tell me is it worth it? does it save time, does it produce good results or should I wait for some better technology?

As mentioned above, Asiga is one and it is widely used in Labs. I myself have an Asiga Max and it has been working well for almost three years, now.

 

[a3dl]

We are loving our Carbon M2. A true workhorse

 

[tuyere]

You absolutely do not need to invest anywhere near 5k to get up and running with printing. Quality hobbyist-tier printers like Phrozens can print 95% of the same resins as your 30k printers can, and at 95% of the resolution. It's shockingly cheap to get going with this stuff if you're willing to learn how to use the machine and do your own support (which every printer user should be able to do, no matter the printer selection).
The real expense for doing nightguards, temporary crowns etc is in the post-cure unit, a lot of the fancier resins need either nitrogen gas shielding or partial vacuum, so you'll need an Otoflash with n2 tank at bare minimum. If you already have this, you can probably get going for under 1k all in, plus the material expense.
RE: the results- understand that the mechanical properties of printed parts will never equal that of conventionally-manufactured parts. Work within that and you're fine. For example, we use that fancy Rodin nanoceramic resin (which you can print on a $600 phrozen!!) but not for actual permanent restorations, just long-term temps, for which it is very well-suited. Also remember that this is irrelevant for model, die etc printing, where the printer offers tremendous savings in expense and labour. A printer complements basically every part of labwork, even if you don't go all-in on printing actual appliances/restorations.

 

[digimonolith]

depends on the manufacture at hand... brilliant starter printer for basic stuff, I couldn't recommend a Phrozen sonic mighty more has been a real game changer in advancing my lab into the 21 century! and although not the cheapest is more affordable than others for a first timer!

 

[NoName]

There is no best printer really.

That being said, I love Asiga. It's easy to use, accurate, and open source with resins.

We print temp crowns that are light-years better than cold cure.

light-years better sounds too good lol, what materials (resins) are you using?

 

[NoName]

depends on the manufacture at hand... brilliant starter printer for basic stuff, I couldn't recommend a Phrozen sonic mighty more has been a real game changer in advancing my lab into the 21 century! and although not the cheapest is more affordable than others for a first timer!

basic stuff meaning what exactly? I assume models, trays and crowns?

 

[tuyere]

basic stuff meaning what exactly? I assume models, trays and crowns?

Paying more for a printer doesn't get you access to more sophisticated products, not really- everybody is validating new resins for hobby-tier open-material printers like the Phrozen line now. The detail and quality of parts coming off one of these 'starter' printers is largely indistinguishable from parts coming off a printer that costs 20x as much, and the difference is irrelevant for many materials/applications. That's no exaggeration- paying all that extra money for a DLP dental printer, like an Asiga, does get you a 'better' printer in many regards, but it doesn't really get you dramatically-better parts, or access to more advanced resins. For the most part, you're paying for the build quality, the support, and the dental-focused ecosystem.
My lab runs Carbons and Asigas, all excellent high-end printers that can do phenomenal work, and I still say that, nowadays, there's very little reason to pay 15k+ for a printer instead of 600 when you're starting out. It won't get you meaningfully-better results if you're willing to learn the printing process and your machine. Upgrade down the road if you start being limited by your equipment, generally because you want more build plate capacity.

 

[tuyere]

And re: materials- models are your starting point, and probably the bulk of your printing. Start there, learn how to support models and diagnose print failures, and then start exploring more challenging materials that need more care in nesting and printer settings; like- custom trays, surgical guides, gingiva for models, nightguards, and then into stuff that has the most demanding process control and post-processing attention, like denture bases, denture teeth, and 'printable zirconia' nanoceramics like Rodin Sculpture and Titan. The learning curve isn't really that steep, but it's very easy to ruin i.e. Rodin parts through incorrect post-processing, and the material itself is expensive enough that you shouldn't dive headfirst into that until you're a confident printer, imo.

 

[NoName]

And re: materials- models are your starting point, and probably the bulk of your printing. Start there, learn how to support models and diagnose print failures, and then start exploring more challenging materials that need more care in nesting and printer settings; like- custom trays, surgical guides, gingiva for models, nightguards, and then into stuff that has the most demanding process control and post-processing attention, like denture bases, denture teeth, and 'printable zirconia' nanoceramics like Rodin Sculpture and Titan. The learning curve isn't really that steep, but it's very easy to ruin i.e. Rodin parts through incorrect post-processing, and the material itself is expensive enough that you shouldn't dive headfirst into that until you're a confident printer, imo.

thx, yeah, I agree with everything you said, that was a good advice and yes, I would do exactly as you said - first start with simple things and when I'm more familiar with how everything works - I'd try something a bit more challenging and so on, that's the smart way of doing things and I'm sure there will be some kind of a learning curve

 

[Car 54]

Paying more for a printer doesn't get you access to more sophisticated products, not really- everybody is validating new resins for hobby-tier open-material printers like the Phrozen line now. The detail and quality of parts coming off one of these 'starter' printers is largely indistinguishable from parts coming off a printer that costs 20x as much, and the difference is irrelevant for many materials/applications. That's no exaggeration- paying all that extra money for a DLP dental printer, like an Asiga, does get you a 'better' printer in many regards, but it doesn't really get you dramatically-better parts, or access to more advanced resins. For the most part, you're paying for the build quality, the support, and the dental-focused ecosystem.
My lab runs Carbons and Asigas, all excellent high-end printers that can do phenomenal work, and I still say that, nowadays, there's very little reason to pay 15k+ for a printer instead of 600 when you're starting out. It won't get you meaningfully-better results if you're willing to learn the printing process and your machine. Upgrade down the road if you start being limited by your equipment, generally because you want more build plate capacity.

I'm so glad I started with a Phrozen. The removable dies are coming out wonderfully, the print quality is very nice. I designed a 4 unit bridge from a I/O scan, milled it in wax then printed the solid cast and removable die models. The fit was spot on with both. For my use in printing models, it's been an excellent affordable investment. Let alone replacement parts like the FEP, FEP with tank, are very reasonable.

 

[JonnyLathe]

light-years better sounds too good lol, what materials (resins) are you using?

I'm using Rodin Sculpture for temp crowns. I really like flexcera smile ultra+ too but it isn't radiopaque like Rodin is, flexcera is easier to clean because you can put it in an alcohol bath. They both polish nice.

 

[Scotties dental studio]

Good morning, very interesting insights regarding printers.
I am a small removables lab in South Africa, been in the trade 25yrs, up to a year ago all my work was done the old school way, impressions, models, custom trays, bites etc etc
more recently 2 of my clients purchased IOS (primescans) both are chairside milling.
I started asking them to send me scans STL files, outsourced model printing to a friend who has a Phrozen XL 2022, I duplicate these and block out and make flexible dentures and chromes.
I see the value in receiving the work from scans Vs conventional methods of collecting impressions, custom tray and bite( scans allow you to skip straight to try-in or even finish)
I have saved some cash and am now looking to get my own printer.
As mentioned by Tuyere from what I have seen of the Phrozen printers, they are a good starting point for a relative newby to printing.
I would like to print models and outsourse design for RPD frames and print in house cast and work off, any suggestions, I am not looking at huge volumes of either models or RPDs to start off with, but am torn between printer with larger bed for models Vs smaller for RPDs ( the castable resins are quite pricey so wouldnt want to have to fill a huge vat to print)
been looking at Sonic Mini 8K/sonic mighty8K Sonic Revo 14k ??
Also is anyone on here familiar with the better castable resins to use on these entry level printers
Thankyou in advance !

 

[Andrew Priddy]

the elegoo Saturn 3 Ultra is what i use for models, but you can also find plenty of hobby resin (jewelry) to use for casting... cheap, available is SA im sure

 

[Scotties dental studio]

the elegoo Saturn 3 Ultra is what i use for models, but you can also find plenty of hobby resin (jewelry) to use for casting... cheap, available is SA im sure

Thanks Andrew, yes the E Saturn 3 is available here, I was leaning toward the Phrozen mini 8K mainly coz I like the water washable model option Phrozen has for dental model and I was initially under the impression that it was pretty much plug and play like the sonic 4K XL 2022 which is more dental specific, seems I am wrong and mini would probably need the same trouble shooting as any hobby type printer on the market whether I use Phrozen resin or not.
On the castable side, would the jewellery resins be accurate and stable enough to cast RPD frames once the machine is properly calibrated to the resin ?
Thanx in advance

 

[tuyere]

Thanks Andrew, yes the E Saturn 3 is available here, I was leaning toward the Phrozen mini 8K mainly coz I like the water washable model option Phrozen has for dental model and I was initially under the impression that it was pretty much plug and play like the sonic 4K XL 2022 which is more dental specific, seems I am wrong and mini would probably need the same trouble shooting as any hobby type printer on the market whether I use Phrozen resin or not.
On the castable side, would the jewellery resins be accurate and stable enough to cast RPD frames once the machine is properly calibrated to the resin ?
Thanx in advance

1) These are open resin systems, as a rule you can use anything with any printer as long as it's intended for the technology you're using (DLP/SLM, LCD, etc- all cheap hobby printers are LCD) and the correct UV wavelength (and it almost always will be). There's no need to buy a printer based on what resins the manufacturer offers. Most people don't actually use the resins the manufacturers offers, they're upsell products and you can do better from third parties.
2) Water-washable resins are pointless, imo- I've never seen one that is genuinely 'water-washable' to an acceptable standard of cleanliness, at least some alcohol is required for it to do a good job, and more to the point, it still generates waste you can't pour down the drain, except this time it's in much larger volumes than you get with alcohol. You will get a resin that's inferior in most regards in exchange for being kinda-sorta-halfassedly water-washable, and you will generally need to do secondary brush-scrub washing after the fact anyways. Just use a conventional resin and accept that you'll have to use an alcohol workflow for post-processing, because you 100% will.

 

[Andrew Priddy]

i have no doubt the materials are accurate... get the S3ultra if you go that route
also, no experience with the sonics... and what tuyere said is spot on