Problems milling zirconia inlays/onlays with a Rolland DWX-52dci, chips and more chips

A

Aleksandra M.

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How did that case came out in the end? Few notes to make:
- If you only having issues with inley/onlay, then definitely check your design. On the other hand on one of the pictures that you sent, it seemed that chipping occurred on regular crown not on inlay/onlay.
-as for tools we switched to diamond and they are milling great. We used carbide for a long time and they were coming out good too as well, but life on those tools is short.
- personally (my personal opinion everyone :) ),buy original tools. For the longest time we were buying third party and we didint have best results. With that being said, i did hear that you can adjust tools length in the system and blah blah blah :p. I do not know how to do it and we never played with it. Obviously support we have told us that if we will make changes they wont support us anymore since they wont know if any issue we will even experience would due to tools. Obviously they want us to buy tools from them, but since we cant play with changing tool length in the system on our own since we do not know how, we went back to original tools and what a difference it was!!
-points that I made before are for mill itself to check if everything is in order, since if you will decide to call support those are steps that they will ask you to do anyway.

Just responding overall after reading some other coments.

Oh, and i am in Florida.
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

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Obviously support we have told us that if we will make changes they wont support us anymore since they wont know if any issue we will even experience would due to tools.
whoever your support is, they are doing a horrible job.
 
user name

user name

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(Now we have an Exocad, and have to say, designing it in Exo is like a dream coming true, no problem at all)
Not only beautiful, its freedom at it finest.
The new Lamborghini Essenza is coming out, and you will read that its not street legal any where in the world...
except you can license one here in South Dakota. Car builders often come here to get their exotic rides legal papers for the road.
For all our States attributes ( beauty, no taxes, no Covid restrictions...no sissies),it does have its draw backs.
Im here, and a lot more like me. Come. Take pictures. Go away.
 
A

A. M.

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whoever your support is, they are doing a horrible job.
Why??? They support the software that is optimized for the burrs you can buy from them...
You can always buy it from other places, but depending on your problem when you need help the question is going to come up... are you using "our" burrs?
I would love to see anybody stand behind someone else's product???
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
to be honest, the only time burs from other suppliers make a big difference is when spindles are laid horizontal because the deflection is now also subject to Gravitational forces so you get more pronounced tool deflection at high speed.

but for vertically mounted spindles, you should easily be able to buy tools from other suppliers and get good results or better. you haven't changed any of the engagement in the CAM, only the tool itself. if the length matches and the diameters and number of flutes are the same, good tools will instantly stand out by their longevity on identical circumstances.

any support would be able to cope with a call on this matter. dismissing trouble out of hand, on the basis that you changed tooling is bonkers.
 
A

A. M.

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to be honest, the only time burs from other suppliers make a big difference is when spindles are laid horizontal because the deflection is now also subject to Gravitational forces so you get more pronounced tool deflection at high speed.

but for vertically mounted spindles, you should easily be able to buy tools from other suppliers and get good results or better. you haven't changed any of the engagement in the CAM, only the tool itself. if the length matches and the diameters and number of flutes are the same, good tools will instantly stand out by their longevity on identical circumstances.

any support would be able to cope with a call on this matter. dismissing trouble out of hand, on the basis that you changed tooling is bonkers.
Make sure the geometry of your tools matches the geometry specified in your CAM software. I think the shoulder on your 1mm tool is hitting the edge of the restoration during the finishing path. This is a very common problem when users change tool brands but don't update the tool geometry in the CAM software. View attachment 36402
It is easy to buy tools from anybody, you call them, give a credit card number and it's on the way....
I love the pictures that Glenn Kennedy put up here...
So I guess the tools are not exactly the same (the lengths). And as I said before it won't be a problem when you are using smaller pucks, but you might run into problems on bigger pucks
:)
 
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A

AKP

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We have tried tools from 3 different companies that were not original and each time we were disappointed in the end. On bigger pucks we had chipping after just one job (3hr job total-25 or 20 mm pick),and no one in their support was ever able to tell me time for the tool there were always saying by “jobs milled” which is not very accurate to anyone and in the end I was changing tools every 3hiurs. without changing tool lengths in MillBox (no idea how to do it either),we ended up buying more 3rd party tools that lasted 3 hours only( or less) comparing to paying a little more and have them last longer (carbide ). Now we got diamond tools and we get pretty good results!
 
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rivfordental

rivfordental

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Not only beautiful, its freedom at it finest.
The new Lamborghini Essenza is coming out, and you will read that its not street legal any where in the world...
except you can license one here in South Dakota. Car builders often come here to get their exotic rides legal papers for the road.
For all our States attributes ( beauty, no taxes, no Covid restrictions...no sissies),it does have its draw backs.
Im here, and a lot more like me. Come. Take pictures. Go away.
:cool::eek:
 
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rivfordental

rivfordental

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Full Member
We have tried tools from 3 different companies that were not original and each time we were disappointed in the end. On bigger pucks we had chipping after just one job (3hr job total-25 or 20 mm pick),and no one in their support was ever able to tell me time for the tool there were always saying by “jobs milled” which is not very accurate to anyone and in the end I was changing tools every 3hiurs. without changing tool lengths in MillBox (no idea how to do it either),we ended up buying more 3rd party tools that lasted 3 hours only( or less) comparing to paying a little more and have them last longer (carbide ). Now we got diamond tools and we get pretty good results!
We buy everything from Zahn Dental, if you buy from them, which diamond burs do you recommend to us? We have kept buying the carbide ones that came with the machine. After we changed the compressor and added dry air filters, and greased the collet. The machine is performing better, but there are chips here an there, i do not know if i really need to change to diamond. Also one of the Zahn specialists is sending us a new part that Roland added to the calibration disc in order to correct calibration. We will see.
 
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rivfordental

rivfordental

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Hello @user name, well, right night we are running dry air. And you will not believe it, the main chip issue was related to:
We in may, updated Millbox to the latest version, but the guy from Zahn Dental, that installed the software, did not updated the firmware for the Rolland, could you believe it? o_O:eek::mad:🤬 Now the Rolland is working flawless, we also decided to change to Diamond burs to improve productivity, we got the burs from Sierra Tool, based on what they say, those burs run between 50 to 200 hours, let's see.
Thank you so much guys, @user name , @CoolHandLuke , @FASTFNGR @JMN @Glenn Kennedy @zero_zero @AKP @A. M. @Aleksandra M. for all the advice. Now we are taking care about our machine a little more, running scheduled maintenance, keeping dry air, etc... For real you are the best guys.
 
JMN

JMN

Christian Member
Staff member
Full Member
Hello @user name, well, right night we are running dry air. And you will not believe it, the main chip issue was related to:
We in may, updated Millbox to the latest version, but the guy from Zahn Dental, that installed the software, did not updated the firmware for the Rolland, could you believe it? o_O:eek::mad:🤬 Now the Rolland is working flawless, we also decided to change to Diamond burs to improve productivity, we got the burs from Sierra Tool, based on what they say, those burs run between 50 to 200 hours, let's see.
Thank you so much guys, @user name , @CoolHandLuke , @FASTFNGR @JMN @Glenn Kennedy @zero_zero @AKP @A. M. @Aleksandra M. for all the advice. Now we are taking care about our machine a little more, running scheduled maintenance, keeping dry air, etc... For real you are the best guys.
So glad you found out what the problem was. You just got an associates degree in mill care and maintenance. That thing outta put out flawless faithfukness to design for some time with your upgraded knoowldge.

Now, the hard part, share the knowledge.

Super tick;ed for you, that had to feel unending and like niyhing worked, but guess what, it all worked so you are now better off than you were even before the software update/updidn't mess.
 
A

AKP

New Member
Full Member
Hello @user name, well, right night we are running dry air. And you will not believe it, the main chip issue was related to:
We in may, updated Millbox to the latest version, but the guy from Zahn Dental, that installed the software, did not updated the firmware for the Rolland, could you believe it? o_O:eek::mad:🤬 Now the Rolland is working flawless, we also decided to change to Diamond burs to improve productivity, we got the burs from Sierra Tool, based on what they say, those burs run between 50 to 200 hours, let's see.
Thank you so much guys, @user name , @CoolHandLuke , @FASTFNGR @JMN @Glenn Kennedy @zero_zero @AKP @A. M. @Aleksandra M. for all the advice. Now we are taking care about our machine a little more, running scheduled maintenance, keeping dry air, etc... For real you are the best guys.
Good to hear you got your answer!

For future, start writing names of people from Zachn that actually can help you. This is what I did before, I would always ask specifically for one or two names, since I felt that rest just couldnt keep up. But now they changes lots of people again. And i stopped calling while back too.... Sometimes I can figure out issue quicker than they do. And yeah, sure, they need to learn from somewhere, but they should have much better training to start with since we depend on those machines.
 
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