material costs for various milled items, looking at AG Motion 2

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TheElusiveSasquatch

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Hmm not sure how they pull that off. Here’s my breakdown on it:

$250 hard costs
$64 to dentist (33% of $400 minus 33% of $200 lab fee)
$40 for 2 hours total of chair time with assistant
__
Total is $354, leaving $46 to cover general office overhead and profit. Obviously other procedures are going on at one time, so at $160 of general overhead/hr, using 1 chair out of 4 it should cover 25% of overhead, which is $40/hr, so $80.

That puts the costs at $434 conservative) with a revenue of $400. Two arches done at once would save $120 in costs, leaving a profit of $52(best case). But a single arch loses $34 (best case scenario)

That’s assuming no remake, and a packed schedule the rest of the day. Any changes with that and all the margin is gone. Hopefully that sheds some light on it
 
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Holly93

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Hmm not sure how they pull that off. Here’s my breakdown on it:

$250 hard costs
$64 to dentist (33% of $400 minus 33% of $200 lab fee)
$40 for 2 hours total of chair time with assistant
__
Total is $354, leaving $46 to cover general office overhead and profit. Obviously other procedures are going on at one time, so at $160 of general overhead/hr, using 1 chair out of 4 it should cover 25% of overhead, which is $40/hr, so $80.

That puts the costs at $434 conservative) with a revenue of $400. Two arches done at once would save $120 in costs, leaving a profit of $52(best case). But a single arch loses $34 (best case scenario)

That’s assuming no remake, and a packed schedule the rest of the day. Any changes with that and all the margin is gone. Hopefully that sheds some light on it
That is way under market value for California. Corporations like w dental take Medicare and charge exponentially more than the prices you listed. Maybe this is a state economy thing.
 
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grantoz

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i dont believe he is only charging what he says ,he doesnt want to give away how much he is making ive had this heaps .they put on the sob story that they are only making x to get the price down for the materials and the work done. lets face it he is willing to spend tens of thousands to save a maybe 50 bucks it doesnt make sense as i have never met a dentist who cant add up. except for the cerec guys.
 
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Holly93

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i dont believe he is only charging what he says ,he doesnt want to give away how much he is making ive had this heaps .they put on the sob story that they are only making x to get the price down for the materials and the work done. lets face it he is willing to spend tens of thousands to save a maybe 50 bucks it doesnt make sense as i have never met a dentist who cant add up. except for the cerec guys.
Agree. All of my Medicare dentists drive sports cars and have million dollar houses.
 
JMN

JMN

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I like to take the chance that he's actually one of the rare honest ones.
If it turns out not to be, then shame will follow him and we could excoriate to the extent of need.
I'm a realist, which is generally an unrequited optimist. I hope for the best in people, but not one bit surprised when things are sub-optimal.
 
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Holly93

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I like to take the chance that he's actually one of the rare honest ones.
I am down to sponsor an anonymous “secret shopper” to confirm those prices. There’s no way he would bother doing removable dental appliances if his margins were that small
 
Chalky

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i have routinely seen all lab fees tripled in the clinic to 'cover costs'. they spend minimal time with the patient when compared with the time it takes to actually make the job and quite often the lab fee is quoted to the patient as being much, much more than it actually is to save face in front of the patients. I completely understand that they have a different set of costs and overheads, but is the mark up on something that is sourced from a 3rd party justifiable? If I source teeth for example for a denture I am not tripling the cost to me in my invoice, in fact I only pass the cost on and nothing more(I include shipping in the casting forwarded),maybe stupid on my part but I feel that it is the right thing to be doing. I had a direct example of this when a relative of the lab owner I worked for some years ago went to one of our dentists for a splint and showed us the fee breakdown after treatment, the 'lab fee' was triple what we charged and the clinic fee for consult, impressions and insert were quoted as much less that the lab fee. this makes the labs appear to be ripping off patients which is simply not the case. my lab is now attached to a clinic and it is routine for them to aske me for a quote and triple that when relaying the 'lab fees' to the patient. it is a sad industry norm... it seems across the globe! (im in Aus) how many dentists have you ever heard of working 15 hour days 7 days a week only to scrape through the month? then drive home in his 10year old Hyundai, to walk into his meagre suburban home only to not see his/her family...again! 🤔
 
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Holly93

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OK this is the last straw I’m calling my congressman to get the Canadian lab fee system aa federal law. It would keep blowhards like this dentist from crying poverty
 
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TheElusiveSasquatch

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I don’t screw around with Medicaid fraud. It’s clear some of you are ok with stuff like that and seem to even encourage it, but I’m not. Feel free to get on Medicaid and come get a denture. It will cost you 0 out of pocket and the state will pay us $400.

Of course it’s quite ironic that in one thread there is criticism of being cheap, and then also criticism for taking a loss for helping the community I grew up in. Why do you think dentists need to find cheaper alternatives? Because some us are honest and won’t pad the bill.

Luckily other procedures are more profitable and we can still make an honest buck and live quite comfortably.

Also i see there’s a reading comprehension issue here in that I’ve already stated that zirconia will pay the bill of the machine and the dentures would be a bonus. But hey, reading is for chumps, just keep assuming I’m trying to pay off $60,000 system one denture at a time. Go ahead, make yourself feel good. You’ve earned some self love.

Read and judge how you want , I’m actually a.o.k with it, I sleep well at night.

For the helpful members on here, thank you for your input so far, as always it’s been appreciated:). Several of you have PMd with very useful info, thanks all !
 
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TheElusiveSasquatch

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TL/DR- I’d rather find an honest way to save a buck than a dishonest way to make a buck.
 
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Holly93

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Sounds like part or your business should be a non profit. Last time I checked the free clinic for dentures was an 18 month wait. That’s because no dentist has prices that you’re talking about.
 
JMN

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Sounds like part or your business should be a non profit. Last time I checked the free clinic for dentures was an 18 month wait. That’s because no dentist has prices that you’re talking about.
The catch is that a business tax id must be either non-profit (meaning it is not allowed to make a profit),normal 'for profit', or a hazy "not-for-profit' that is allowed under weird rules to make some money.

Splitting that up in the same office with the same equipment and staff would be a accounting nerds dream and everyone else's nightmare.
 

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