Let's Share Color Recipes

[tonester]

I enjoyed the thread "Very Difficult Shade" by NicelyMKV and the color suggestions by Al and Paul. I also appreciated Al's suggestions on my thread " Venting About Value".

I attended a seminar of one of the well known techs and was suprised to find out he will not do a single central for a doc. If he is talked into it, he makes two and charges for two while the first one is considered an expensive shade guide. I can't get away with this so I have to try my best to match custom shades.

All this being said I figured I'd share some recipes, for better or worse, to hopefully get others to share their recipes. I'm not sending these because their perfect but their a basis to decide what we'd keep or change the next time around.

This first case is a pfm(doc's request and no porc. margin) with Avante porcelain. Built 3L1.5 with mamelon development. Yellow and gold mamelon porcelain. Smoke trans grey outlining mams. Internal stain with white, and Orange Brown. Overlayed with "light incisal" similar to a "T1" and a halo with a higher value enamel.

Hopefully doc will send me post-ops and I will post and analyze what I'd do different.

I'm never 100% satisfied but I keep trying to learn from my recipes and i hope i learn from yours.

Please share your recipes!

I'll post more after this but truthfully I'd rather see yours.

 

[tonester]

[/ATTACH]

This case is emax to zirconia core #7. BL4 porcelain built 3/4 size fired. Empress Universal Grey stain outline dentin frame and white stain effects and fired. Blue Trans layered over stain. T1 enamel mesial distally, OE1 in the middle, and incsal Edge for a halo.

A little Pentron LFS Artiststain Complex Grey ot improve shade. I use this stain a lot on 3D shades.

Please share your recipes.

 

[tonester]

[/ATTACH][/ATTACH]



Sorry, here are photos for first pfm post.

3L1.5 yellow, gold, smoke grey, light enamel, Higher value enamel, white, yellow, orange brown stain.

Pleas share ytour recipes.

 

[tonester]

Sorry, bare with me. Here is the before and after of the emax/zirconia case. [/ATTACH]

Let's see you recipes!

 

[Bobby Orr ceramics]

Tonester.....The almighty Single Central is a tight rope to walk in ceramics. Those cases can be a loss leader or a loss creater for your business. I only do them for my best clients who understand the difficulty and give me grace to get it right. However, I did have a single central that cost me $1,000,000 a couple years ago. I made a crown 4-5 times and the patient always found 'something' wrong with it. The dr ,who we'd worked for 15 years, got frustrated and sent all his other Rx's somewhere else. The dr averaged about $10K per month and to me that's $1,000,000 account over 10 years. OUCH!! I understand completely why some ceramists won't do them.


My approach in general is to design the crown achieving the value zones first and bring the patient back for custom glazing with crown in the bisque stage. I find this approach the best for me to customize chairside.

 

[tonester]

Here is another case. Almost same layering with difference in stain effect placement as the emax to ziconia thread above. This is also emax to zirconia. The patient had flat papillas and it was a struggle trying to close embrasures without making crowns look too square. It's ok.

Patient was extremely happy althouhg , I botched the value on the mesial and distal trans. I was too heavy on my Grey Universal stain on my stain layer. As it has been mentioned in other posts your enamel layer can magnify effects and that is what happened here. Some of the blue showing interproximally is the residue form blue contact paper as well ( not helping).

I showed this as a case where I can learn from my mistakes. The problem is I don't always see the patient after my shade evaluation so I hope I made these areas the right intensity. With this color scheme I don't get many back so I believe they're in the ballpark and as this one is, it's acceptable to the patient, but not totally acceptable to me.

I was able to get post-ops of this but not able to make any shape or color adjustments. I could only observe and move on.

[/ATTACH]

 

[tonester]

emax to zirconia crown # 7. Patient did not want any tissue recontouring.

B1 porcelain cervical 1/3, BL3 middle 1/3, fire. Ver slight Universal Grey stain in incisal 1/3, and white stain, fire. Skin with OE1. Highlight with Lustre Paste white.

This is enough for now, I hope you will share your color recipes, how you achieved your results, and what recommendations, and favorite products you have to achieve your shade matches.

 

[paulg100]

nice results.

at the moment im at a stage where i rarely make anything on single centrals. I hear over and over again that you should charge AT LEAST double for these. Either that or you swallow it as part of the bigger account.

I always make sure i explain to the client what these cases are about though, so hopefully i dont end up in Bobs situation.

Ill try and add a few cases when i get a minute.

something you might not know in the mean time tonester, i note your using the empress universal grey stain regularly in your work to mimic a translucent effect.

That universal grey stain is reflective. if you mix the empress red blue and yellow stains together you will create a complex grey that absorbes light instead.

i use it on most of my work now to soften the incisal transition on emax and zirconia frames and other areas where im limited with space etc, works a treat .

 

[tonester]

at the moment im at a stage where i rarely make anything on single centrals. I hear over and over again that you should charge AT LEAST double for these. Either that or you swallow it as part of the bigger account.


something you might not know in the mean time tonester, i note your using the empress universal grey stain regularly in your work to mimic a translucent effect.

That universal grey stain is reflective. if you mix the empress red blue and yellow stains together you will create a complex grey that absorbes light instead.

 

[tonester]

Paul and Bob, I envy you but I still have to do custom singles every day. Do the large stuff too but many can't afford it the way they use to, so I cn't break away from it just yet.

Paul thanks for the input on the universal Grey and creating complex grey. I'm going to try it asap. That's why I started this thread to get great advice from great techs!

 

[wilkscm]

Lovely work great results can you show me how you build up using the grey stains your work is fantastic thanks for sharing and best wishes
Chris

 

[tonester]

WILKSCM,
I appreciate the compliment. My main desire is to open a dialog so many will share their recipes for custom shades and we'll all benefit.

I'll try to take photos of process but for now I'll summarize:

1. You build the basic shades of dentin that are needed and maybe slight enamel, slightly shy of the final length desired and slighty undercontoured in the incisal 1/2 and fire.
2. Now you stain effects on that first fired layer. I use the grey "as you asked" often. I stain an outline of the incisal 1/3 and mesial and distal in the desired shape I want, like drawing it on. It goes on dark but wipe most off until it is muted or it will look too intense after enamel layer. You can also stain mamelons, craze lines, etc. at this time or fire some of the effects and stain more effects and fire again so they don't mix together.
3. Sometimes I'll still add trans porcelain such as blue or violet over the grey depending on the intesity needed.
4.Apply the enamels that are needed over the fire effects mentioned earlier. High value and low value areas.
5. Contour and glaze.

Hope this helps.

 

[wilkscm]

But you deserve all the credit for the time and effort you have put in to achieve this high standard fantastic. What makes it great that you and others take the time to share with others, many thanks
Chris

 

[tonester]

C'mon all you artists let's come up with a layering scheme to replace one of her centrals with Emax porcelain.

Base shade is 1m1. I like how the mammelons look like they are floating internally. How would you achieve this effect?

We have some great artists on this site: Al, Paul, Russ, Rob, Bobby, etc., etc. etc. I'd love your input.

Let's share a gameplan.

Thanks all!

 

[Al.]

B1 Lt Base. Layered with D2 Dentin TI2 incisal, with a skin of OE4 over the entire surface to duplicate the surface bleaching.

 

[tonester]

Awesome Al.

I'm excited where this post may lead, although I know you have a ton of similar threads and much appreciation for that. This one I wanted gameplans to match surrounding teeth as opposed to a full makeover. You nailed this one and I'll file it in my memory banks. Hope you'll share more. I do know I have questions for you on some effects you've achieved on your previous cases.

Please hypothesize your gameplan on above 1m1 central.

Thanks Al!!!