Laser melted subs

[eyeloveteeth]

How are you burnishing these margins?

I'm using some hard/medium rubber points and then a dull 1558.

Too bad the first batch of work already went through QC this morning, I'll see if i can catch some from the Argen copings.

Something to note -

Compartis SLM copings are made of CrCo Tungsten
Argen SLM copping are made of CrCo Molybdenum Tungsten -

Argen SLM will have a higher yield strenght so may not be as easy to "burnish" compared to Compartis -

However, regardless of the yield strength - SLM copings are 100% dense in material - versus casted copings which have oxides - (in most cases hopefully 20%) - so that in itself will lend it's malleable properties.

 

[eyeloveteeth]

"I couldn't help but notice that each of these scanners aren't exactly at the top of the list for accuracy. -"

The renishaw contact scanner is accurate, there is no doubt about that. Just limited in its ability to handle complex geometry.

Oh, I'm sure they are all accurate - sorry paul didnt meant to take away from that. It's just in the land of NY...we have a large influx of shoulder bevel margins - and those systems ~ due to the more complex geometry tend to not fit great.

If i had a perfect chamfer or shoulder every time - any of those systems would be perfect for you - just need the right parameter for the right material.

 

[rkm rdt]

I'm using some hard/medium rubber points and then a dull 1558.

Too bad the first batch of work already went through QC this morning, I'll see if i can catch some from the Argen copings.

Something to note -

Compartis SLM copings are made of CrCo Tungsten
Argen SLM copping are made of CrCo Molybdenum Tungsten -

Argen SLM will have a higher yield strenght so may not be as easy to "burnish" compared to Compartis -

However, regardless of the yield strength - SLM copings are 100% dense in material - versus casted copings which have oxides - (in most cases hopefully 20%) - so that in itself will lend it's malleable properties.

good point! you know your stuff


Is there much oxidization with the argen slm?

 

[eyeloveteeth]

good point! you know your stuff


Is there much oxidization with the argen slm?

I haven't gotten them yet. But SLM means that they are in a vacuum environment. So Nitrogen or Argon chamber.

Therefore no oxidation at all. will post pics of the Argen copings tomorrow.

 

[paulg100]

Im not trying to defend any of these scanners, they all have their problems.

I dont the inoes and cercon scanner are not great accuracy wise.

What im trying to say is with the renishaw scanner, i done some test copings on text book preps which the scanner could handle, and i was still not impressed with the fits.

This is why i kind of wrote the Laser sintered metals off.

but now you say your getting good fits.

Pictures of unadjusted copings would be great please ... popcorn

 

[eyeloveteeth]

Argen and Compartis copings

Just arrived for 10:30AM delivery

The Argen Crowns came in very shiny - the fits were pretty decent, but ever so slightly loose.

I used the same parameter with Argen Crowns and with Compartis crowns.

The Compartis crowns are significantly tighter.

Will update on the workability of the Argen crowns.

 

[rkm rdt]

They look good to me eye.

I fiinished the crowns from the other day and I was able to slightly burnish as you described.They came out good after all for a first attempt.

Let's keep this thread going with pics like yours.I'm learning a lot here.

I will be scanning for an inlay ceramic gold bridge and an implant crown today.I'll try to remember the screen shots and returned coping pics as well.

 

[rkm rdt]

When I say" they look good to me eye" it sounds like I'm a pirate when in fact I should have placed a comma after me...arrrrrgh where's me parrot off to?

 

[eyeloveteeth]

haha rkm you crack me up.

Our Metal Guy is playing around with 2 of them to see how much we need to do.

overall i'm pretty happy. Time to see if the Argen CrCoMoTungsten is as malleable as the Compartis CrCoTungsten

 

[PCDL]

Sorry to get back to this thread late.... I will have to take a peek at my settings, but if you ask Ryan at Bego about Precision Craft's settings, he can probably help you out.

When I get my castings back, we still spend 5-10 minutes finishing them down. With my settings, they are fitting tightly, and have a thickness at the margin. I spend some time on the internal aspect, then the remainder is thinning the margin. We are routinely getting margins back that are .5-.6mm thick. I am thinning them down to .3 or so. I find that if we design them thinner, they don't cast well, and I have issues. In general, since I posted before, I am doing about 75% of my metal work with Bego now. I don't do Implant castings, as I haven't dialed my settings in for those, and they are routinely too loose, but thats on my side of things, not Bego's.

 

[NicelyMKV]

I was getting slightly loose fits but it was due to the actual die not having spacer painted on. Spacer was figured in to the design so when it came back it would fit slightly loose. The margins were a little fat but I think some of that is due to the process requirements. Still going to continue to try some here and there.

 

[eyeloveteeth]

The fit was good but the margins were a bit rounded not as sharp as cast.
I think I am guilty of trying for an exact metal to margin instead of a slight overextension to compensate for less than ideal margins.

I like to cutback for a porcelain shoulder and I had a space under the metal( cement space too low perhaps.

You should be looking for an exact metal margin. My metal guy just finished playing with the Compartis and Argen SLM copings..man..

both are decent, but I like Argen's because it was really easy to work with. Took barely 3 minutes to burnish the margin.

I should have a few pictures of how razor sharp we've been able to get these. They already went into production, so I have to wait a bit.

RKM - if you don't want to post publicly, Private Message your scanner/software make, and maybe I can help you out with the parameters. - The best thing about technology is that you never want to over compensate - then you end up doing things that it wasn't designed for.

Pictures coming soon

 

[eyeloveteeth]

I was getting slightly loose fits but it was due to the actual die not having spacer painted on. Spacer was figured in to the design so when it came back it would fit slightly loose. The margins were a little fat but I think some of that is due to the process requirements. Still going to continue to try some here and there.

Most likely your Extra Cement Gap was too high. I have mine set around 0.3

Also, check what type of angle you have your margins set at because I got margins as thin as 0.15

 

[IVY]

You will have to work the margins down to what you like with argen (probally just because of requirements for laser sinter) however, it is minimal and way faster than traditional techniques. Main thing is margins are tight, bridges are dead nuts accurate and it takes only a minute or two to cut in your butt margin or thin down to a zero metal.
IV

 

[eyeloveteeth]

You will have to work the margins down to what you like with argen (probally just because of requirements for laser sinter) however, it is minimal and way faster than traditional techniques. Main thing is margins are tight, bridges are dead nuts accurate and it takes only a minute or two to cut in your butt margin or thin down to a zero metal.
IV

Totally agree, Just heard from argen and they are having great success with 4 unit spans.

For butt margins, hopefully your software has a cutback option for it, because really, the metal department really is liking this stuff. Opaque seems to have a high wettability as well.

 

[eyeloveteeth]

Finished copings

as promised!

I have a photo with a scalpel right next to it to show you how thin the metal really is. This is truly amazing.

Job Well done Argen


Sorry the photos aren't clear. I used the regular iphone camera instead of the better Apps with an integrated UI. Hand's shaky from working all day.

We are going to be trying the noble metal now

 

[rkm rdt]

Here's my first 2 crowns/copings fro Bego cad/cast ( Begopal semi prec.)

Once the margins were finished they looked pretty good. These were cutback crowns . 4/10ths mm thick so metal finish was easy.
Fit was excellent and no drill compensation in default settings.

It's weird adding the die hardner and red pencil after the copings are made.The red line I added for the photos but it was sloppy.

Next ones will be a gold crown and an implant crown.

 

[IVY]

Maybe over polished? I'll post some from argen, you will see margin is sealed and tight, regardless of Dr. prep. Sorry just lost my flash and can't stand the pics I get without it!
IV

 

[rkm rdt]

So here is the next 2 orders I received from Bego from my 3 Shape D700 EH

Here is the BegoPal S silver palladium coping untouched. The margins are bang on.



The second is an Aurolloyd M cad/cast full gold crown straight out of the box.The fit and margins are excellent.

I didn't really change the parameters from what I had. I barely touched the margins from what the software marked and the results were better than when I tried to move the line to the crest of the margin.This was the slight overextension I was referring to in my previous post.

 

[IVY]

Very Nice!!!!!