Ivoclar Digital PM3 Vs PM5 Vs PM7

[Patrick Coon]

I did. They only had a PM7 and a PM1 on the show floor. Both should be available towards the end of the year. The 3 and 5 somewhen after...

The PM7 is a beast. It is sold with the cabinet and suction unit as one module... No air required. if I remember correctly, you have to pony up $80'000+ for that one.

The PM1 is a single unit wet (only) mill. Again, no air required. Suitable for (very) small labs and dental offices. Or if you need something to mill your e.maxs. And it is controlled with your phone or tablet!

Actually the 3,5&7 will need an air line, but everything else is included in the cabinet. Only the ONE has its own air supply, as it only needs enough to open and close the coolers, and to keep debris out of the coolers during block and burr changes.

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[Contraluz]

Actually the 3,5&7 will need an air line,

I stand corrected. I guess, I should have focused more on the presentation than on the wine served...

 

[Sevan P]

Total beast PM7 baby! 6mm tooling, 5mm single flute cutters for wax and pmma this thing is gonna rip. Wet milling with out vacuum so no more extreme loss of water from evaporation through the vacuum and hydro as on the hybrid select. Easier to maintain and clean and access anything and everything in and on the mill. Price is gonna be coming in very hot just be sitting down when you find out lol! Removable tool carrier. It still only 8 disk still, the new vhf r5 has 10. They geared this mill for digital dentures and titatlnium with a 960watt spindle, this mill is built.

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[brayks]

My preliminary opinion, for what it's worth and I am a competitor, so there ya go.

Now I am not saying it is not a good machine. I'm just saying that I am not sure I would call this a total beast just yet—not without knowing any specs on the real important aspects of the machine. Nothing on frame construction, weight, guide system, screw diameters, preload, reduction gearing, fixturing, coolant delivery, etc., etc.

Can't really tell but it looks like a lot of "wrapping paper" which may make it "look" nice, but provides no significant weight to provide all important vibration dampening or heat dissipation.

Although from looking at the video, its certainly not a "toaster". Fixturing lacks optimum support (more vibration),some beefy components, but that's about all I can tell. Not seen any specs or gut-shots to take a peek for a clue.

CAM software and templates are also key and should also be high on the decision criteria list. Having been in the CAD/CAM software business for many years, home-grown high-speed, 5-axis, CAM software on uber-tight tolerance STL files? Scary. Lots of risk. No thanks, tried that, never want to see the T-shirt again.

Spindle power seems a bit light— but torque at operating speed is the real issue (which is also not published) but depending on whether or not it has an AC sync or DC motor, under 1kW power would might not yield as much power as you think (especially if that rating is max and not S1). Other considerations important to evaluation, performance, longevity and restoration quality; bearing type and configuration, runout, cooling, manufacturer and more.

Who knows, it may turn out to be one, but to me, the jury is still out on this, what appears to be an entirely new machine design, waaay out.

Just say'n...

Now here is a REAL beast. Check out the specs.

 

[Sevan P]

My preliminary opinion, for what it's worth and I am a competitor, so there ya go.

Now I am not saying it is not a good machine. I'm just saying that I am not sure I would call this a total beast just yet—not without knowing any specs on the real important aspects of the machine. Nothing on frame construction, weight, guide system, screw diameters, preload, reduction gearing, fixturing, coolant delivery, etc., etc.

Can't really tell but it looks like a lot of "wrapping paper" which may make it "look" nice, but provides no significant weight to provide all important vibration dampening or heat dissipation.

Although from looking at the video, its certainly not a "toaster". Fixturing lacks optimum support (more vibration),some beefy components, but that's about all I can tell. Not seen any specs or gut-shots to take a peek for a clue.

CAM software and templates are also key and should also be high on the decision criteria list. Having been in the CAD/CAM software business for many years, home-grown high-speed, 5-axis, CAM software on uber-tight tolerance STL files? Scary. Lots of risk. No thanks, tried that, never want to see the T-shirt again.

Spindle power seems a bit light— but torque at operating speed is the real issue (which is also not published) but depending on whether or not it has an AC sync or DC motor, under 1kW power would might not yield as much power as you think (especially if that rating is max and not S1). Other considerations important to evaluation, performance, longevity and restoration quality; bearing type and configuration, runout, cooling, manufacturer and more.

Who knows, it may turn out to be one, but to me, the jury is still out on this, what appears to be an entirely new machine design, waaay out.

Just say'n...

Now here is a REAL beast. Check out the specs.
View attachment 29238

Comparwd to the 5x200 its not the beast of all beasts, but from what ever they have produced in the past, yes it is. As far as the nitty gritty specs, noithung released yet cause it's not on the market yet and they most likely will not release some of the info willingly , yet.

Now as for the cam, v4 ds-cam has some new features. O be of which will autonest 120 unit across 8 disks within a matter of minutes. I currently use DS cam v3.4 and I have to from using other cams in th e past it is one if the easiest to learn, fast and calculates large frame bridges faster then other cams out there. Compared to hyperdent, it's still a good cam. Hyperdent is a more open cam allowing you to fine tune the small details to create spot on fits on implant cases, whi,h ij found tok to very helpful. I know Jordan over there and got the new run through of the newest features. I was amazed.

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[brayks]

Hi Everyone,

I looking to buy a new Milling machine and I'm interesseted by the new ivoclar Digital PrograMill.
The probleme that I didn't find lot of information about it.
I want to know what the difference between those 3 machines.

Thx

Hello Delta,
I am not sure what it is that peaked your interest in these machines that are not in active production but If I may, I would like to suggest a different approach to selecting your first dental machining center.

I suggest you first learn what is truly important in selecting the best CNC machine for your application and business objectives.

I highly recommend that you visit our website to learn what is important so that you can arm yourself with information and knowledge which will help you navigate through the mountains of information and misinformation out there touting the virtues of a given machine. If you spend quality time at this site you will be able to spot the differences, know what questions to ask and separate fact from fiction. In this area of our site I discuss the 4 key elements of the solution: Machine construction, fixturing, CAM software and machine templates. Of course one should always consider their suppliers knowledge and ability to provide timely, quality support.

This is something I am pretty passionate about, that is, informing the dental lab community on the technology so they can get through the BS and move into solutions that break the current paradigm and allows them to be more profitable and produce higher quality restorations. That lets them know they do not have to live with the inefficiencies and problems associated with the vast majority of solutions available and implemented many labs today. This is mainly because they don't know what they don't know and many providers of solutions either don't know either or are not will to divulge information on the "nuts-and-bolts" of their solution that may let them see what they really NEED to see and that is, actually what is "behind the curtain".

Think about it, why do you think doctors are implementing digital systems? It is mainly because they are tired of the quality they are tired of receiving restorations from labs (even CAD/CAM supported labs) that require excessive chair time to fit, do-overs and customer re-visits. I hear it all the time.

Regardless of the realities of dental practices doing this, they ARE. One thing you can do about it is to rise above the quality and delivery timeliness of current CAD/CAM supported labs using less capable machines and implement a solution that breaks the current paradigm by implementing solutions that utilize superior technology and provide restorations of the high-quality doctors want, reduces their chair-time and eliminates customer revisits— at the lowest possible cost.

Labs currently using digital manufacturing methods could also do well by really assessing the components of their current system and new comers to the game can help themselves greatly by reviewing this particular area of our website so they know what to look for and what the real important questions to ask are that will enable you to make a truly informed decision.

Please don't hate me on this as I speak from the heart. I truly believe that given the state of the dental business, with doctors going digital in CAD and in-practice labs, government meddling, rise in DSO movement, lab consolidation, etc. the dental lab business is at the crossroads and they must rise up in order to survive. It's not all gloom and doom of course but I've seen this before and was part of it in the automotive industry where I lost literally hundreds of customers and I really would like to NOT see it again.

If I may, I would caution anyone to keep in mind a lesson that has been hard learned by many: the pains of a system that may cost a few dollars less or seem easier to use in the beginning, far outlast those associated with the initial incremental cost or slightly extended learning curve of a truly superior solution. Basically most of what I am saying here I did in an interview published in IDT magazine in 2016. Here it is (no comments on the head shot taken quite a few years ago).

Dang, I did it again. Babbling. Sorry. It's late and I don't have it in me to proof read the above, so there it is, for what it's worth. I'm off my soap box now and going to bed....