Exocad / Artex / settings

[dima]

Hi there!
Would anyone share the parameters you usually use to Artex articulater in Exocad ? We are kind of doing a bit random in our lab and I'm after something that will work for general . Thx !

 

[Jack_the_dentureman]

I'm sorry, but you either asked the question wrong or worse, you don't understand the articulator. articulator settings are determined individually for the patient by special methods or you use the so-called standard settings. 15 degrees bannett and 35 for condylar path

 

[user name]

I'm sorry, but you either asked the question wrong or worse, you don't understand the articulator. articulator settings are determined individually for the patient by special methods or you use the so-called standard settings. 15 degrees bannett and 35 for condylar path

Isnt it 15 and 30?

 

[2thm8kr]

Isnt it 15 and 30?

Depends on the knowledge source.
In exocad I use 10 and 20.

 

[user name]

Depends on the knowledge source.
In exocad I use 10 and 20.

Might be more than you want to share, but Im curious how you arrived at that.

 

[user name]

Might be more than you want to share, but Im curious how you arrived at that.

Just thinking...average is good for me, but do the actual numbers change over time for the average person?

 

[2thm8kr]

Might be more than you want to share, but Im curious how you arrived at that.

No human has ever been recorded to have less than 25°, not even close.
If it misses at 20° it will miss at anything steeper. When I do digital work ups I am not always certain that the restoration will be fixed.
An old mentor of mine did dentures at 25°. @kcdt

Most of my patients are older than Methuselah, they have broken down dentition and some have had broken down. condylar capsules. I've had a lot of success at 20° for an average and I'll stay there until something dictates a change.

Also, if you use anything flatter than what the patient actually has using exo virtual articulator the protrusive and excursive movements in the software are dictated by the position of the teeth.

The process may change since we started using gothic arch tracers on all full arch/mouth restorations regardless if fixed or removable. @kcdt <--- thanks!

 

[dima]

I'm sorry, but you either asked the question wrong or worse, you don't understand the articulator. articulator settings are determined individually for the patient by special methods or you use the so-called standard settings. 15 degrees bannett and 35 for condylar path

Well , thanks for answering ! Yet this is the first time I've been judged by asking a question , interesting !

 

[dima]

We have been doing ( 15 , 35 ) , ( 10 , 35 ) , then the most interesting ( 35 , 35 ) and ( 0, 35 ) ! That's why I needed to listen to some more experiences

 

[user name]

@dima
We're all on the same team, more or less. Envision the 3 Stooges discussing something. We dont all bring the same skills, knowledge or attitude to the forum. Let these knuckleheads see youve got a thin skin, you just put a target on your back. Im normally in charge of dumb questions and wording things poorly, so welcome.

 

[Jack_the_dentureman]

hey hey hey. but he asked about artex. and artex has a standard for its face bow 35. I use a different system 30 and 15 for full dentures. but he asked about artex

 

[Jack_the_dentureman]

in a nutshell, these degrees tell us about how high the tooth cusps can be. so working at 20 you are more likely to have no collision in your mouth. the doctor does not have to work and is happy. this approach may have consequences for the patient, but does not have to.
the parameters themselves bring nothing and may be different with different articulators. The whole system is important FACE BOW - CORRECT MEASUREMENTS - ARTICULATOR AND ARTICULATION IN IT.

 

[Jack_the_dentureman]

Well , thanks for answering ! Yet this is the first time I've been judged by asking a question , interesting !

because we have to have some plane of understanding. it results from a concern to pass on exact knowledge. I answered, but I also wanted to stimulate the understanding that this simple answer is not absolute.

 

[2thm8kr]

this approach may have consequences for the patient,

What consequences are you speaking of?

I use face bow on every large case. This puts the maxillary in a general position according to the condyles of the specific patient, however an articulator can not simulate
with accuracy the motion of the human jaw. Some of the newer digital methods of recording patient jaw motion will soon overtake the traditional methods of the face bow and lab articulator.

 

[Jack_the_dentureman]

this applies to the reconstruction of the fronts. canine and incisal leads if you cannot designate them. the palatal surfaces of the anterior teeth together with the appropriate teeth reflect the temporomandibular joint system. so by making a different shape you change the movement in your temple joint. the patient can adapt, or the change may be small, or complications may occur. overloading our work or the joint.

 

[2thm8kr]

It is rare in nature for humans to have completely balanced protrusive and excursive movements in accordance with the eminence of the mandibular fossa.
Maybe this is one of the reasons for broken down dentition's, but most patients are completely symptom free.
When you have nothing to go by measurements and averages are useful, but you as the technician are still making the patient's guidance on an instrument that
can not accurately simulate every motion possible. Flatter is better IMO. Parafunction is what breaks teeth and restorations. Eliminating these interference's and providing and 'escape' for the teeth in a cross over motion leads to longevity of our work in patient's who still have proprioception and some who do not.
The muscles need freedom of motion.

 

[millennium]

It is rare in nature for humans to have completely balanced protrusive and excursive movements in accordance with the eminence of the mandibular fossa.
Maybe this is one of the reasons for broken down dentition's, but most patients are completely symptom free.
When you have nothing to go by measurements and averages are useful, but you as the technician are still making the patient's guidance on an instrument that
can not accurately simulate every motion possible. Flatter is better IMO. Parafunction is what breaks teeth and restorations. Eliminating these interference's and providing and 'escape' for the teeth in a cross over motion leads to longevity of our work in patient's who still have proprioception and some who do not.
The muscles need freedom of motion.

You articulate your self very well

 

[user name]

I think Im alone on this, but when I do larger cases, I like to equilibrate and check function on an old Hageman Balancer Junior.

I admit, I dont know what I dont know, so please educate me why its a flawed idea, if it is.

 

[2thm8kr]

It's all wizardry, if you have something that you understand and can make it work in reality......

 

[Sda36]

I think Im alone on this, but when I do larger cases, I like to equilibrate and check function on an old Hageman Balancer Junior.

I admit, I dont know what I dont know, so please educate me why its a flawed idea, if it is.

I think I may be alone on this but never heard of that device?? Anything like FGP??