Cubex shading issues

[macminn]

We're having issues with one of our docs using the cubex2. Darker shades only, such as D3, C3, etc. They match the shade guide perfectly, and he admits that as well, but they're too bright in the mouth.

 

[Michael Steel]

how long are you dipping it for

 

[macminn]

We dip for 60 seconds. Sinter at 1480.

A side question, how does the sintering temp affect these newer high translucency zirconias?

 

[eyeloveteeth]

the longer it cooks the less translucent they become as the metal oxides penetrate more and leech. Same with your dipping liquids. They are all metal based (think blue teal color from copper)

 

[Affinity]

are you using a gray liquid on the incisal? If youre just dipping, youre going to have shade problems. Im only speaking of what I know which is sagemax, which Ive found isnt much different than the cubex2.

 

[macminn]

We've been just using the SO on the incisal for everything, which if I understand right is more of a blocking agent than an incisal shade. Does sagemax have a higher translucent material? What liquid system are you using with it?

 

[Affinity]

its hard to say without seeing a picture of it, but inhibiting the color only leaves plain white zirconia.. I would think. Ive never used a block out agent. I color with amann girrbach stains. Paint and dip. Use the gray on every unit, more or less depending on shade. Sagemax is coming out with new materials, but Im happy with the nexxzr t. It takes long enough to get good shades with one system, so I stick with it.

 

[Affinity]

Heres a D2 sagemax anterior case. I havent yet learned how to photograph zirconia yet.. It never looks as good in the picture. This is an old case, I cant tell you if it has the gray pre sinter color or not.

 

[macminn]

Not to be argumentative, but the sagemax is a completely different animal. It's the original type high strength zirconia. The Cubex is the lower strength/high translucency zirconia. When you paint the blocking agent on, you don't get white, you do get a decent incisal coloration.

Just can't figure out why they match the shade guide, but are too bright in the mouth.

 

[JKraver]

Shades are very subjective. If you hit a perfect D3 your Dr picked the closest shade they can on the guide. It can still not match teeth even if it nails the tab. You may have to sit with the patient and custom shade. You if it is consistent on every dark shade, and a different tab matches better. You may ask the one taking the shade to take a munsell test. It tests the ability to see hues and shades. Their eye may not be able to detect that region of the light spectrum with accuracy.

 

[PearlZ]

i am repeatedly told that darker shades work good but all the light shades come out too yellow.

 

[JKraver]

@JohnWilson He could definitely help with this color issue.

 

[JKraver]

Munsell test is great anyone dealing with color should take it IMO. It shows you where your deficiencies are and allows you to compensate.

 

[2thm8kr]

http://www.colormunki.com/game/huetest_kiosk

 

[JKraver]

Pretty good score, most men experience a color degradation at age 42. Did you know your blue green was slightly off. Probably not enough to make any noticeable difference, and luckily teeth are more in yellow/orange region.

 

[JKraver]

View attachment 19290 View attachment 19291

http://www.colormunki.com/game/huetest_kiosk

My dad is 56 scored a 0, I am 29 and got a 2 what a jerk.

 

[PearlZ]

this test makes my eyes hurt

 

[Affinity]

Not trying to be argumentative either, but, sagemax may be a different animal but I edit: rarely, have crowns come back for shade. The most translucent blah blah dont mean anything if it doesnt look good in the mouth. Case in point, I thought life would be easier with emax HT ingots.. but they are more trouble than they are worth because they look gray.

I held a cubex unit and a sagemax next to each other in front of a light and they looked identical.. I will say the cubex had more of a satin glow to it.. so maybe the light transmits better but Id still have to see how they compare in the mouth. Translucence aside, its still monolithic and its not going to match the dentin/enamel layers of a natural tooth like a layered crown.

 

[PearlZ]

i scored an 8, took 1 hr to do the dang thing cause i had to stop after each row for 10 minutes and relax my damn eyes.

 

[2thm8kr]

i scored an 8, took 1 hr to do the dang thing cause i had to stop after each row for 10 minutes and relax my damn eyes.

Stay out of the custom shading in the ceramics dept.