Vita Physioden vs Ivoclar Phonares II

JonnyLathe

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I'm looking for a premium denture tooth for our optimal dentures. I really like the vita physiodens (and MFT for healing dentures),and they're slightly more cost effective than the Phonares II, but I use an Ivobase with High Impact Acrylic and am wondering if the Phonares II will have a better bond with the Ivobase system. I'm also attracted to the idea of getting my teeth from the same vendor that I order my acrylic. Any opinions on this? I work at a clinic with two docs and would like to keep my economy moulds/shades streamlined since we typically go economy "healing" dentures to optimal dentures after the healing process, so using the same mould/shade system for the economy denture is nice.

I was using Portrait but I got sick of the backorder issues, and the physiodens are comparable in price to portrait anyway (and way nicer looking IMO).

Thanks!
 
Datguypeter

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For full dentures I mainly use phonares they seem to last longer than physiodens (still, both are great). But for partials I prefer physiodens because of the wide range of shades available.
 
JKraver

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I'm looking for a premium denture tooth for our optimal dentures. I really like the vita physiodens (and MFT for healing dentures),and they're slightly more cost effective than the Phonares II, but I use an Ivobase with High Impact Acrylic and am wondering if the Phonares II will have a better bond with the Ivobase system. I'm also attracted to the idea of getting my teeth from the same vendor that I order my acrylic. Any opinions on this? I work at a clinic with two docs and would like to keep my economy moulds/shades streamlined since we typically go economy "healing" dentures to optimal dentures after the healing process, so using the same mould/shade system for the economy denture is nice.

I was using Portrait but I got sick of the backorder issues, and the physiodens are comparable in price to portrait anyway (and way nicer looking IMO).

Thanks!
I am an ivoclar guy, I do not believe there would be a better bond.
 
Doris A

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I don't know how I missed this.
We use strictly Ivoclar teeth as well and we have the Ivocap system instead of Ivobase. As far as bonding goes, it really doesn't matter between the two. But what you need to do on any brand of teeth is paint a coat of bonding agent on the teeth before you close the flask for processing. We use pala bond from Kulzer.

Phonares are beautiful teeth and we use a lot of them, but there is one drawback to them. They only have 6 molds. They come in small, medium, and large of the same 6 molds.
 
John in Canada

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I’ve used lotsa physiodens wHen I was at the university. They require a bonding agent as mentioned above. Funny tho, can’t get the bonder in Canada (but you’re not in Canada),lol. Anyhow, did see some debonding (not enough to throw up warning flags like it happened all the time cause it didn’t) and did see occasional chipping.
To rectify, was told by Vita to use diatorics and I’m a disbeliever in diatorics. In my personal lab, I use predominantly Ivoclar teeth, and I’ve been using Ivocap for over 30 years-it’s been a pretty flawless system for me. Sad they’re doing away with it. I’m not as gleaming about Ivobase.
When I do use other than Ivoclar teeth, and it’s usually Vita teeth (I’ve abandoned Dentsply as they have abandoned the laboratories) And not that I mean anything to them, I put in diatorics and I charge $25 per denture extra to do so. If you’re conscientious about a proper, methodical boil out, and freshen up the ridge lap surface of the teeth you’ll be fine with Ivoclar teeth, no diatorics, no bonding agent. That’s been my experience.
 
JKraver

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I am an ivoclar guy, I do not believe there would be a better bond.
What I said could be misleading. I think the bond will be nearly the same close enough not to be statistically relevant. Phonares 2 my only knock on them is they are brittle, and you cannot fit it in a tight spot. I know nothing about the physiodens, I have heard they are great teeth.

I don't know how I missed this.
We use strictly Ivoclar teeth as well and we have the Ivocap system instead of Ivobase. As far as bonding goes, it really doesn't matter between the two. But what you need to do on any brand of teeth is paint a coat of bonding agent on the teeth before you close the flask for processing. We use pala bond from Kulzer.

Phonares are beautiful teeth and we use a lot of them, but there is one drawback to them. They only have 6 molds. They come in small, medium, and large of the same 6 molds.

Candulor NFC+ I believe are the same material as Phonares 2 but have different molds
 
JonnyLathe

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I prefer the moulds and aesthetics of the physiodens to phonares II, and I like Vita MFT for an economy line. So in a way I prefer VITA teeth but I love how I can order Ivoclar teeth off of their website, unless I'm missing something from Vita? I just think having to call and make a tooth order is so archaic in 2022.

I'm encouraged that I can get just as good of a chemical bond from Vita teeth. I haven't used a bonding agent before, I was taught to just put a bit of monomer on the teeth before processing (and grinding the ridge lap, which I usually have to do to set teeth anyway). I'm not opposed to using a bonding agent to make better dentures though. Do you guys have a suggestion on a good product?
 
JKraver

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I prefer the moulds and aesthetics of the physiodens to phonares II, and I like Vita MFT for an economy line. So in a way I prefer VITA teeth but I love how I can order Ivoclar teeth off of their website, unless I'm missing something from Vita? I just think having to call and make a tooth order is so archaic in 2022.

I'm encouraged that I can get just as good of a chemical bond from Vita teeth. I haven't used a bonding agent before, I was taught to just put a bit of monomer on the teeth before processing (and grinding the ridge lap, which I usually have to do to set teeth anyway). I'm not opposed to using a bonding agent to make better dentures though. Do you guys have a suggestion on a good product?
I steam clean then scrub with monomer qtip if it squeaks there will be a good bond.
 
JKraver

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I prefer the moulds and aesthetics of the physiodens to phonares II, and I like Vita MFT for an economy line. So in a way I prefer VITA teeth but I love how I can order Ivoclar teeth off of their website, unless I'm missing something from Vita? I just think having to call and make a tooth order is so archaic in 2022.

I'm encouraged that I can get just as good of a chemical bond from Vita teeth. I haven't used a bonding agent before, I was taught to just put a bit of monomer on the teeth before processing (and grinding the ridge lap, which I usually have to do to set teeth anyway). I'm not opposed to using a bonding agent to make better dentures though. Do you guys have a suggestion on a good product?
Phonares 2 look hideous on the card, but in the mouth they look fantastic.
 
JonnyLathe

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Phonares 2 look hideous on the card, but in the mouth they look fantastic.
Good to know, I just set my first case with Phonares II and felt they looked so weird after working with IPN, then Physiodens. I haven't tried it in the mouth yet though so I'm excited to see!
 
Doris A

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I prefer the moulds and aesthetics of the physiodens to phonares II, and I like Vita MFT for an economy line. So in a way I prefer VITA teeth but I love how I can order Ivoclar teeth off of their website, unless I'm missing something from Vita? I just think having to call and make a tooth order is so archaic in 2022.

I'm encouraged that I can get just as good of a chemical bond from Vita teeth. I haven't used a bonding agent before, I was taught to just put a bit of monomer on the teeth before processing (and grinding the ridge lap, which I usually have to do to set teeth anyway). I'm not opposed to using a bonding agent to make better dentures though. Do you guys have a suggestion on a good product?
PalaBond by Kulzer.
I grind the ridge lap and add monomer too. The bonding agent is just added insurance. There isn't a tooth that leaves the lab without PalaBond, be it a repair or a new denture.
We have a Dr who uses only Phonares teeth, the first thing he wants us to do is flatten the incisal edge.
 
JonnyLathe

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PalaBond by Kulzer.
I grind the ridge lap and add monomer too. The bonding agent is just added insurance. There isn't a tooth that leaves the lab without PalaBond, be it a repair or a new denture.
We have a Dr who uses only Phonares teeth, the first thing he wants us to do is flatten the incisal edge.
Thank you. Do you add Palabond before or after monomer? I imagine after?
 
Doris A

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Thank you. Do you add Palabond before or after monomer? I imagine after?
After the the monomer has evaporated, paint a thin coat,let it dry and process as usual.
If you use it on a repair, paint it on the old acrylic too, it helps the new acrylic bond to the old.
 
bigj1972

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Palabond is good stuff. A little pricey. Seems I remember it left just the slightest hint of purple or blue after cured. Barely, barely noticeable. If there is a cheaper alternative I'd like to know. Haven't used it in awhile, but if your looking for a primer, can't go wrong.
 
JKraver

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What is the chemical process behind the bonding agent? How does it differ from monomer?
 
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From the smell , I believe the bonder is just a thicker more "aggressive" monomer if that makes sense.
It seems to really "melt" the surface . I use American dental supply's bonder. Manufactured in USA and my
home state of PA.
 
Affinity

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Check out the candulor lines too if you want more moulds compared to the phonares, same material made in the same factory, so I was told. Ivoclar doesnt sell them anymore apparently, I ordered at edmonds dental supply.
 
JKraver

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View attachment 40462
Here is the instruction sheet on it.
The ivobase curing unit (I believe you use as well) has a 10 minute swelling period, so wouldnt the bonder be at its limit? I dont know what the efficacy limit is at that point I am sure it has something. Typically companies put less active time on these things than what is accurate. Ill break some out, see how it works if my bottle isnt expired.
 
Doris A

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The ivobase curing unit (I believe you use as well) has a 10 minute swelling period, so wouldnt the bonder be at its limit? I dont know what the efficacy limit is at that point I am sure it has something. Typically companies put less active time on these things than what is accurate. Ill break some out, see how it works if my bottle isnt expired.
We use Ivocap so I put it on, close the flask and inject. We also use it on repairs and left in on longer than it states in the instructions and it still worked just fine.
 

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