Built my lab. Got acquired. Building another, but then what?

[Roman]

Hello Everyone!

If you haven't seen this is my first post in the DLN forums. I love that there is a community here!

I built a dental sleep lab from the ground up in 9 months to about 29k per month. A biotech company caught word of what I and my team were doing and made an offer I couldn't refuse! Frankly, I built the business as if I could sell ay anytime (systematized, clean books and automated) so it was an easy choice for them to buy. Here is where I need everyone's opinion! I am building their technology center out which will take ~9mo and helping some clients along the way, but WHAT DO I DO NOW?!

The thing I love about the industry is there are so many opportunities and great people! What are some new sectors of the Dental lab industry that are opening up? 3D printing, A.I., Consulting, etc...? I would love to hear suggestions for a fellow entrepreneur!

Thanks all!

I have business proposal for you. Need help with marketing new product in dental industry

 

[Flipperlady]

Hello Everyone!

If you haven't seen this is my first post in the DLN forums. I love that there is a community here!

I built a dental sleep lab from the ground up in 9 months to about 29k per month. A biotech company caught word of what I and my team were doing and made an offer I couldn't refuse! Frankly, I built the business as if I could sell ay anytime (systematized, clean books and automated) so it was an easy choice for them to buy. Here is where I need everyone's opinion! I am building their technology center out which will take ~9mo and helping some clients along the way, but WHAT DO I DO NOW?!

The thing I love about the industry is there are so many opportunities and great people! What are some new sectors of the Dental lab industry that are opening up? 3D printing, A.I., Consulting, etc...? I would love to hear suggestions for a fellow entrepreneur!

Thanks all!

How about a dental drone pilot? Just watched a utube video on that, looks scary, and maybe unnecessary

 

[Doris A]

I wonder what happened to the original poster, he hasn’t been here in over a year.

 

[JMN]

He was acquired cheaper than buying his businesses?

 

[Chad Gardner]

As a DDS with a Roland 6 puck 5 axis mill, I think an easy way for someone to make money is to get damn good & fast at digital designing crowns, dentures and all on X’s. It may be a saturated market...IDK. But I have a guy that does wax-ups for $5/unit and design for $9/unit, dentures are $60 and all on Xs are $120/arch.
He has a 24 hour turnaround, which helps me sell cases. I scan them, send him the stl & photos, he designs then remotes in and starts my mill or printer. It’s ready the next morning and I come in, have the patient back ASAP, make a suck down, fill it with bleach shade Luxatemp and they ALWAYS (98%) buy the crowns...
I then prep ASAP, while they are emotion driven and send him the scans, load the PMMA puck, he tweaks the design and starts the mill. The next morning, I go in early and polish the crowns, let them wear for 4 weeks to 6 months. FMR from consult to nice multilayered PMMA temps or finals in 5d or less before they change their mind.
I copy the occlusion when it’s dialed in and mill posteriors in zirconia and anteriors in eMax, some are all zirconia. Some I send to the lab when they want the Cadillac.
FMR costs me $1500-2000 he makes about $500/hour doing it for about 30 DDSs and his only OH is a computer and likely pirated Exocad, all from his apartment.
We do my all on X temps, and sometimes finals from Lucitone 199 pucks and/or PMMA teeth with Trilor reinforcement. I scan post surgery, tell patient to come next morning at 9am, I get there at 7am, bond it all together and pick up the temp cylinders in the mouth and deliver in 10 minutes. Adjust occlusion and slap ‘em on the butt.
Finals are always dependent on what the patient wants. I have MANY walking around with temps after 2-3 years but have paid for zirconia or whatever. Just saying it works and more DDSs are buying big mills and Medit scanners then realize they don’t have time to design. Most patients don’t care about Frank Spear appearance if they can get long lasting, well functioning, decent to good looking crowns, bridges, etc. for a reasonable price.
$500/hr in your pajamas is a helluva living... My associate makes $650/day!

 

[zero_zero]

$500/hr in your pajamas is a helluva living...

@CoolHandLuke ... There's yer ticket man

 

[Chad Gardner]

Seriously, the kid started doing it in college. His dad was a lab tech so he knew teeth and he got accepted to dental school after getting his MBA and BS in computer science with a minor in microbiology.
Now he says he’d be crazy to go to d-school. He plans to hire a team of “nerds” as more of us dumbass DDSs blow our money on these toys and he outgrows his clients demands. He currently only designs for DDSs on eastern & central time. That leaves the high tech, high population of the west coast wide open! He said in Asia & Europe they all use designers from China & Vietnam to do the same thing, but in the US we don’t trust a foreigner to have open access to their computer system. (His parents are from Beijing originally).
He’s paid through PayPal, so I’d bet he’s avoiding a lot of taxes but IDK. Said he gets up 6Am Central time, exercises and eats, then usually has 2-3 cases already from East Coast guys. He can design a FMR in an hour, and does this until 4-5pm all while working on other stuff. Carries his laptop with him so if a case is emailed, he can get to WiFi and design it real quick. He designs a bunch of dentures for another guy that has a Medicaid denture mill and said he can do them in 20 minutes. The download and upload takes him longer than the design he says especially now with so many at home on the Internet.
I’ll bet anything he nets more than me and my wife combined (she’s my CDT). And he has other side gigs...smart kid. Think he’ll be rich one day.
I tried getting really good at design during the shutdown but at 43 y/o, I just don’t have the computer skills or the ability/drive to learn it. It took me 14 hours over 3d to digitally waxup a case, I sent it to him and in an hour his looked better...my daughter wants veneers.

 

[Chad Gardner]

My bad. Here’s a case I delivered last week. Guy wanted to go straight to zirconia, “I don’t want my teeth cut down to nubs and I don’t want them to break. I can only afford $18k. Everybody else is saying $30-50k.”
I told him zirconia would not look as good as lab made eMax crowns, he needed a FMR bc of reflux, he chose zirconia bc of costs. Monday was the consultation, Thursday we delivered after he approved the temps on Tuesday. I had it completed in 5 hours exactly of chair time. Not pretty but the best he could get for $18k and he refused to wear PMMA temps...real a-hole. Zero occlusal adjustments though.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

@CoolHandLuke ... There's yer ticket man

its a nice idea, but i don't think it could work for me personally.

Chad has said his guy has been to dental school - likely has the credits. i have on the job training. any DDS taking me on assumes all liability and would have to say so in writing, but probably wouldn't hold up very long in court. i could design for a lab, but probably not a dds.

maybe in less regulated states?

anyhow, nice idea. solid maybe.

 

[Flipperlady]

its a nice idea, but i don't think it could work for me personally.

Chad has said his guy has been to dental school - likely has the credits. i have on the job training. any DDS taking me on assumes all liability and would have to say so in writing, but probably wouldn't hold up very long in court. i could design for a lab, but probably not a dds.

maybe in less regulated states?

anyhow, nice idea. solid maybe.

Call me crazy lol, however when I was reading "work in your pj's". Mark J and TexasT started yelling "caution!!!" in my head. Well they were yelling more colorful things, but caution is the cleaned up version.

 

[Doris A]

Call me crazy lol, however when I was reading "work in your pj's". Mark J and TexasT started yelling "caution!!!" in my head. Well they were yelling more colorful things, but caution is the cleaned up version.

I miss them both.

 

[user name]

Everything is canted to the pts left.
Good quality Zr looks better than e.max.
Nothing against doing things quick, but it looks like it was done quick.

 

[charles007]

Thank's Chad for sharing your case and telling us about a day with your lab tech. Must say if it were that simple to make easy money designing cases most of us on DLN would be telling that story over and over again. As far as your case, all that counts is making the patient happy and I hope he was thrilled.
Can't help but see the canted design and I realize sometimes patients don't see flawed designs or off shades.
On this case if your tech had spent an extra 5 to 10 minutes with the mouse and different materials, this could be one of your Cadillac cases. Add another 10 minutes using Jensen's MiYO liquid ceramic stains and this case could be a showroom wallposter for patients to admire. If your sold on using emax on anteriors, use MT when you can, or use a good brand of zirconia. And since speed is in your wheelhouse, order the MiYO Kit, that will give you that Cadillac look with very little training.

 

[Flipperlady]

Thank's Chad for sharing your case and telling us about a day with your lab tech. Must say if it were that simple to make easy money designing cases most of us on DLN would be telling that story over and over again. As far as your case, all that counts is making the patient happy and I hope he was thrilled.
Can't help but see the canted design and I realize sometimes patients don't see flawed designs or off shades.
On this case if your tech had spent an extra 5 to 10 minutes with the mouse and different materials, this could be one of your Cadillac cases. Add another 10 minutes using Jensen's MiYO liquid ceramic stains and this case could be a showroom wallposter for patients to admire. If your sold on using emax on anteriors, use MT when you can, or use a good brand of zirconia. And since speed is in your wheelhouse, order the MiYO Kit, that will give you that Cadillac look with very little training.

To be honest this appeals to me. I don't want to buy all the equipment, but I will train and do the designs to send to dentists mills and printers. I can see myself doing this if there's a market for dentures. Time for research and training

 

[Chad Gardner]

Someone stated he had been to dental school. He was accepted but declined it bc he is able to design and work on other businesses. His only OH is a laptop and a PC.
Yes it’s canted and MIYO would have helped greatly. (I have MIYO and it’s a game changer) He wanted it done yesterday but didn’t want to pay for staining&glazing. I wanted to do PMMA at N/C but he wanted to go straight to finals. These are simply 24 units of A1 LAVA Esthetic polished. I realized it could be a “Cadillac case” when I saw the LAVA on there and offered to cement them with temp cement and mill out the same crowns 5-12 and use MIYO. He said “I don’t have time to keep coming back.”
I realized he’s an a-hole and just cemented them.
But I see more and more DDSs buying 5 axis mills and then realizing they can’t design or it’s not worth the time. Hence the possible future need for designers.
For $500/hr, I’d quit dentistry and do it but I’m just not tech savvy enough. He can get horrible bite scans to stitch perfectly and design so fast. The case I showed was done w/ 1 photo from my iPhone and his lateral canthi measurement.
If I didn’t have a successful practice, I would really give it a try. My first designer charged $40/unit which included the waxup, final design and any redesigning was a $50-100 fee depending on the size of the case and I know many that use him! He requires 8 photos minimum(no problem),would take up to 7 days to finish and was a prick.
When I found out about this kid, it was like I was getting told who shot JFK... and I am strictly forbidden from giving his name out so he doesn’t get too busy.
IDK. It may just be this kid found a niche and has filled it... it’s just an idea. There won’t be a market for a ton of designers but if you get in on the ground floor, someone could possibly make a good living with nothing but a PC and Exocad.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

do you accept responsibility for his designs in the event he hasn't given you proper guidance/balanced occlusion/long cantilevers/unhygienic pontics... or in the case a patient sues ?

cause to be quite honest proper overhead would not only include his laptop and wifi, but liability insurance, ce courses, dongle fees, and if he does have more than 1 client also a case/lab management software, or other HIPAA compliance measures among them the business license and name, website hosting fees, probably more.

i'd be interested in learning exactly how you met though, and who sold you on the idea of having a mill before you were ready.

 

[JMN]

do you accept responsibility for his designs in the event he hasn't given you proper guidance/balanced occlusion/long cantilevers/unhygienic pontics... or in the case a patient sues ?

cause to be quite honest proper overhead would not only include his laptop and wifi, but liability insurance, ce courses, dongle fees, and if he does have more than 1 client also a case/lab management software, or other HIPAA compliance measures among them the business license and name, website hosting fees, probably more.

i'd be interested in learning exactly how you met though, and who sold you on the idea of having a mill before you were ready.

Plus accounting infrastrcuture or accountant, professional licenseing in some states, legal fees, data retention methods (hard drives aren't free nor is reliable web hosting),insurance to cover at minimum the laptop and other hardware, tooth libraries, virtual articulators, cbct reading software or reliance on outside sources....


Plus that jar of vaseline that no lab runs without.

 

[Chad Gardner]

I checked on liability and it’s not been established I.e. the laws are not up to date with the technology. Insurance company said they assumed it was on the person that mills and/or delivers. He’s no more liable than an assistant designing a CEREC in their opinion but it’s never been challenged in court.

As to getting a mill, I never said I was not ready but many other DDSs buy them w/o being ready. My wife is a CDT that does a lot of the work. I also have been Cerecing for 7 years and know inLab inside and out and am decent to good at Exocad but it’s just not worth my time when I can outsource the design so cheap. It’s paid for itself in tax savings alone. Wife rents the space from the practice and “bills” the practice whatever is needed to optimize tax savings. Totally legit as I was audited last year.
Her lab actually showed a net profit of $18k from doing work for local DDSs in a pinch. Charge $250/unit for 24 hour crown or FPDs. Amazing how many will prep a FPD w/o having a temp stent and will pay for a quick bridge so teeth don’t drift.
And I’ve discovered that the biggest barrier to treatment is not money, it’s time. When I say for example “I can do a FPD 6-11 today and eliminate your UPD” they jump on it. I prep & scan with the Omnicam, transfer with Cerec Connect, me or wife design and mill a PMMA real quick, check the esthetics and work out the occlusion, then make the final(s) with MIYO. The PMMA’s alone make it worth the $60k I have in it, as I can verify my margins, esthetics etc. and send to my lab for the final if we’re busy with kids ballgames or homework. I did an all on 5 lower 2 weeks ago with a total cost of ~$2k including implants, MUAs, everything. The milled guide was also my temp framework, milled from Trilor, 3D printed teeth with a slot for the Trilor (Cory Glen, DDS methods) and pink composite. I placed the implants guided, put the MUAs and chimneys on through the guide holes, picked up with Stellar DC, cemented the PMMA’s on, cut off the pin arms and chimneys, polished and delivered in 68 minutes.
I learned about him through another DDS with a 5 axis while complaining about spending too much time designing. I’ve never met him but just speak via email, phone or text. HIPPA email accounts or Dropboxes are cheap and I already had both.
I know personally 9 DDSs with at least one 5 axis and a few others in the process of buying. A Medit Scanner, Roland 52D, MIYO and Austromat 674i is a lot cheaper than a Cerec, much more versatile and removes the all so powerful time barrier. I’m also in a very low income area so it allows me to do charity work and not lose my shirt. I crowned 28 teeth on a 19 year old with enamel hypoplasia and Zahn donated the block and I donated my time, mill and cement. I do a lot of these cases pro bono as I was raised very poor but feel blessed so I try to give back as much as I can
One guy bought a used scanner and Roland and only does PMMA’s, then sends all final scans to his lab. Im rambling but I see many more DDSs in need of in house techs or designers.

 

[Chad Gardner]

And of course I double check his designs and change them sometimes. It’s my job to do so as I am liable for any prosthesis I deliver. But the guy is extremely good. I don’t think he will be around long as he has other businesses.
I feel like I’m defending or justifying my use of technology. I was just trying to state that I see the need for highly skilled designers in the future. That’s all. And I could be wrong!!!
Sure wouldn’t be the first time. But if I’m correct, it would transfer 90% of the overhead to the DDS while someone just did design work. Seems like a great job in my head, but it may suck. Idk.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

you aren't wrong. highly skilled and qualified design is paramount to prompt success. not a single person on the planet will debate that. there are tons of design centers out there.

i've been trying to dig myself out of the covid hole like everyone else, so starting a remote design may be an avenue to explore, given my history with 3shape. i'd rather go in to work though, and do the milling/sintering. work in tandem with ceramists. have a hand in the craftsmanship.