Bubbling, Finesse Porcelain, 250SL alloy...

[BruceQuality]

We have had bubbling issues in the past, see this thread:
http://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/f4/opaque-bubbling-porcelain-shoulder-problem-2969/

We have now narrowed our problems to either the alloy itself, Leach & Dillon's Silhouette Line 250SL or a combination of this alloy with Finesse porcelain. We have eliminated technique and contamination possibilities through multiple experiments with multiple alloys in ingot state.

Have any of you used either of these?
Have you used both together?
Have you used Finesse with a similar alloy (composition below)?

If you have used any of the above, did you have problems with bubbling?
If so, what did you do to eliminate the problem, include what you switched to if you switched products?

Thank you for any/all replies!

250SL Composition
Au-2.0%
Pd-74.78%
Cu-10.3%
In-6.5%
Ga-5.0%
Zn-1.2%
Ru-<1%
Li-<1%

 

[sixonice]

We have had bubbling issues in the past, see this thread:
http://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/f4/opaque-bubbling-porcelain-shoulder-problem-2969/

We have now narrowed our problems to either the alloy itself, Leach & Dillon's Silhouette Line 250SL or a combination of this alloy with Finesse porcelain. We have eliminated technique and contamination possibilities through multiple experiments with multiple alloys in ingot state.

Have any of you used either of these?
Have you used both together?
Have you used Finesse with a similar alloy (composition below)?

If you have used any of the above, did you have problems with bubbling?
If so, what did you do to eliminate the problem, include what you switched to if you switched products?

Thank you for any/all replies!

250SL Composition
Au-2.0%
Pd-74.78%
Cu-10.3%
In-6.5%
Ga-5.0%
Zn-1.2%
Ru-<1%
Li-<1%

Please excuse me if you have heard this a thousand times already, but have you started with new, fresh, virgin alloy (NO buttons)?? You probably have, so I will touch on something else. That alloy I know has a super dark oxide because of the high Palladium & especially the Copper in it. The Copper causes the "blackness" of the oxide layer. Now, excessive oxide can gas, no question - it's one of the drawbacks with it! Have you tried to LIGHTLY air abrade off SOME of that jet-black oxide, leaving some behind to bond with the opaque and then move forward? Reducing some of that (unnecesary) layer may help. Some folks may tell you to not blast the oxide off, but using LOW pressure your gently reducing that layer...not going down to bare alloy. Finally, do you have this problem on other alloys? Do you use some other High Noble say with 40% Gold or yellow ceramic? Does that gas on you or is it just with that particular alloy?

 

[Al.]

Please excuse me if you have heard this a thousand times already, but have you started with new, fresh, virgin alloy (NO buttons)?? You probably have, so I will touch on something else. That alloy I know has a super dark oxide because of the high Palladium & especially the Copper in it. The Copper causes the "blackness" of the oxide layer. Now, excessive oxide can gas, no question - it's one of the drawbacks with it! Have you tried to LIGHTLY air abrade off SOME of that jet-black oxide, leaving some behind to bond with the opaque and then move forward? Reducing some of that (unnecesary) layer may help. Some folks may tell you to not blast the oxide off, but using LOW pressure your gently reducing that layer...not going down to bare alloy. Finally, do you have this problem on other alloys? Do you use some other High Noble say with 40% Gold or yellow ceramic? Does that gas on you or is it just with that particular alloy?

Corona, some of those dark oxide producing metals call for sand blasting after degassing. I used one a while back that the instructions called for it but I switched metal because it was so time consuming to sand blast and then clean the copings again.

I use evolution lite and when I first started using it I had ALOT of bubbles come through the porc from the metal.

I increased my first opaque bake or my bond coat and now bubbles are few and far between for me now.

 

[pingvin]

Did you solve the problem?