Atlantis Abutments

[dmonwaxa]

Dont want to be rude but what are you guys charging for Atlantis Zr, Gold Hue and Ti abutments. I know they offer these directly to dentists, so how does that figure into your pricing?

 

[rlhhds]

Can we discuss pricing here without being accused of price fixing?

 

[desertfox384]

Pricing parts has always been a dilemma for me. I want to be competitive with so much competition in my area but I need to pay my bills too. For awhile I didn't upcharge at all but recently I charge a tad over what it costs me (were talking a TAD,.. 5%) Way way under some labs I know.. Im still a fairly new lab and dont feel like running docs off over 20 or 30 bucks.

 

[dmonwaxa]

Can we discuss pricing here without being accused of price fixing?

I would welcome that, most companies have a lab price and a clinician price. Should we charge the clinician price or more. The way I see it it should probably be more. If the clinician passes that off to you because of his time constraints or lack of technical knowhow then we should be able to profit from it. If we're all honestly striving to uphold and nurture our chosen profession then sharing would not be a problem. Those in the higher price range might be able to shed some light and somehow bootstrap those in the lower price arena. My train of thought is 30-35% markup. What's yours.

 

[doug]

Atlantis will tell you what they charge the dentist for an abutment. Charge at least the same price.

 

[Jo Chen]

How do you generate your Atlantis abutment?
1. Ship models to Atlantis and have them scan.
2. Scann models in house and send scan file.
Both modalities incur differen prices and shipping costs. You can negotiate a better price with Atlantis than published if you do a lot of volume. Try to get 30 to 40% mark up.
The latest rage is package pricing, one flat fee for the restoration and abutment. This is very attractive to dentists, no guessing how much it costs them in the end anymore and you will be better able to hide your mark up.

 

[desertfox384]

A rep from Astra just gave me a rundown of their clinician prices a few weeks ago and they charge 20-30% higher on all their components for dentists. I asked her how Astra justifies the price increase and she said "Because we dont want the docs ordering parts, they dont know what they're doing" I had to laugh - makes sense though, if they ordered all the parts it would cost Astra a fortune in returns and customer support time.

 

[BobCDT]

Hi,
Interesting thread.
When a doc sends you an abutment case you will generally receive an impression and an opposing model. By the time you send the abutment to Astra you have done a pickup (cost$8) setup an analog in the impression (analog $20) pour and mount a soft tissue cast ($25) ship the case to Astra ($6) write the Astra Rx ($5). then, when it comes back we often do some customizing of the abutment to get it the way we want it ($10) We are over $70 (not including what Asta charges us) to get the abutment finished. We would add the $70 to the Asrta invoice and mark up the total by 35-40%.
Charging the Doc what you pay is not good Buisness. If you are in Buisness to make a living you need to run it with a plan to operate at 25-35% profit. Reselling product at cost (or close to cost) will reduce your margin.
Bob

 

[dmonwaxa]

Hi,
Interesting thread.
When a doc sends you an abutment case you will generally receive an impression and an opposing model. By the time you send the abutment to Astra you have done a pickup (cost$8) setup an analog in the impression (analog $20) pour and mount a soft tissue cast ($25) ship the case to Astra ($6) write the Astra Rx ($5). then, when it comes back we often do some customizing of the abutment to get it the way we want it ($10) We are over $70 (not including what Asta charges us) to get the abutment finished. We would add the $70 to the Asrta invoice and mark up the total by 35-40%.
Charging the Doc what you pay is not good Buisness. If you are in Buisness to make a living you need to run it with a plan to operate at 25-35% profit. Reselling product at cost (or close to cost) will reduce your margin.
Bob

Bob, you hit the nail on the head. There are so many things to consider, like you mentioned; processing. Consider also mode of submission, ie in house scan and design or Atlantis design. My experience has been their designs usually need tweaking, just like the returned abutment. This is crucially necessary with the gold hue (Ti Nitride coating) for obvious reasons. So my logic says there should be a design mod charge factored in also, analogous to the lab mod charge. Thoughts?

 

[dmonwaxa]

Atlantis TiAbut LAB =191 Atlantis TiAbut CLINICIAN =291
Pick up/Del = 010 C =000
Analog & Model = 050 C =050
Prescription = 005 C =005
Shipping = 010 C =010
Customizing = 010 C =010
Total = 282 C Total = 366
Difference = -009

Lab at 40% markup = 394.8

Your Thoughts?

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

Here is how we charge for an Atlantis Case:

My prices do not include a lab analog, that is usually supplied, not do they include a pick up or delivery charge. We pass the shipping charge on the abutment to the doctor. We also include a $20 charge for fabricating a soft tissue model on all implant cases.

Ti abutment- $283
Au-Ti -$341
Zir- -$371


We are a scanning lab and we do enough volume to be on Atlantis' Partner price level so we pay:

Ti -$183
Au-Ti -$225
Zir -$255

 

[shane williams]

Are Astra rep has been trying to get us to use him for are Straumann abutments for years!! In the last few days I've been gathering info on prices so we can restructure our price list. Come to find out that if I was to send him my Straumann I'd loose $68 on Ti and over $100 on Zr. Not to mention that if you do a "crown designed abutment"(screw retained stlye) it's like an extra $40 bucks!! So really what I'm getting at is, does anybody know a good place to send for Astra, Nobel, 3I, implants. Those 3 implant types I use Atlantis for, I'd like to find somebody else.

 

[dmonwaxa]

What's the reasoning for the $40 increase for crown abutments?

 

[BobCDT]

Bob, you hit the nail on the head. There are so many things to consider, like you mentioned; processing. Consider also mode of submission, ie in house scan and design or Atlantis design. My experience has been their designs usually need tweaking, just like the returned abutment. This is crucially necessary with the gold hue (Ti Nitride coating) for obvious reasons. So my logic says there should be a design mod charge factored in also, analogous to the lab mod charge. Thoughts?

Yes, in addition, we generally make phone calls to the docs for nearly every implant case to finalize the Rx plan. Sometimes we don't get through to the Dr on the first attempt. Then a day or two goes by and the case become a rush job. Shifting staff around to provide services in less time has additional cost. Also, we see more problems with implant cases than with conventional work. We really should and need to get paid for all of this.
Bob

 

[doug]

What am I missing here? What is the $5.00 for Astra prescription. I go onto their site and log into my acct. Write the 'script, print it and send it with the case. I've never seen a charge for that item.

 

[BobCDT]

Any concern about Dentsply's purchase of Atlantis?
Will the product suffer?

 

[Jo Chen]

Here is how we charge for an Atlantis Case:

My prices do not include a lab analog, that is usually supplied, not do they include a pick up or delivery charge. We pass the shipping charge on the abutment to the doctor. We also include a $20 charge for fabricating a soft tissue model on all implant cases.

Ti abutment- $283
Au-Ti -$341
Zir- -$371


We are a scanning lab and we do enough volume to be on Atlantis' Partner price level so we pay:

Ti -$183
Au-Ti -$225
Zir -$255

Brett,
You might want to have lunch with your Atlantis rep to renegotiate the "partner" price.

 

[Jo Chen]

Are Astra rep has been trying to get us to use him for are Straumann abutments for years!! In the last few days I've been gathering info on prices so we can restructure our price list. Come to find out that if I was to send him my Straumann I'd loose $68 on Ti and over $100 on Zr. Not to mention that if you do a "crown designed abutment"(screw retained stlye) it's like an extra $40 bucks!! So really what I'm getting at is, does anybody know a good place to send for Astra, Nobel, 3I, implants. Those 3 implant types I use Atlantis for, I'd like to find somebody else.

Shane,
If you have a 3shape scanner you could scann and design the 3i cases and send them to Bellatek (3i). $125 for a titanium abutment with a titanium final screw. For Straumann stick with Straumann. If you have a Nobel scanner, do your Nobel cases with Nobel. Around $165 for a titanium abutment including screw. All others Atlantis or Glidewell.

 

[dmonwaxa]

What am I missing here? What is the $5.00 for Astra prescription. I go onto their site and log into my acct. Write the 'script, print it and send it with the case. I've never seen a charge for that item.

Doug, I've never seen it either, however its very clever. I thin its a lot like the charges on our phone bills and utility bills. It might be BS but we still pay it; Right? I started the post because of the differences in pricing, and how some clinicians may expect a lower price from us based on our cost. However there are a lot more involved than some may realize, hidden expenses that may nor have been considered. You can also look at it as a way to recover some of the income lost from previous chitty cases that resulted in remakes. (joke)

Any concern about Dentsply's purchase of Atlantis?
Will the product suffer?

I doubt that will happen. The product speaks for itself.

 

[BobCDT]

What am I missing here? What is the $5.00 for Astra prescription. I go onto their site and log into my acct. Write the 'script, print it and send it with the case. I've never seen a charge for that item.

I'm just figuring the labor to produce the Rx.