Anyone have good shade accuracy experiences with ArgenZst or Nexx ZR multi ?

[Getoothachopper]

Wanting to try these two and looking for information . Will be doing single units and 'spot on shades' is what i'm after thanks in advance for any replies .

 

[rkm rdt]

Argen Z st multilayer is excellent. D2 is accurate.
We can convert to Vita 3D shades with little effort as well.

 

[Car 54]

I thought the Argen ST ML A2 shade was a bit low value Inc wise, and maybe lacking a bit of chroma.
Here is a test cuspid, it was 14mm long in a 16mm disc (1mm to spare top and bottom).

I did one with ging pre sinter color in the A2, looks really good for a A3. If I were to
use the zirconia, I may end up in doing that for most of the shades, a A2 for a A3, a A 3 for a A3.5, pre coloring the
gingival. I do like that they have all the vita shades as well as bleach shades.

 

[JMN]

I thought the Argen ST ML A2 shade was a bit low value Inc wise, and maybe lacking a bit of chroma.
Here is a test cuspid, it was 14mm long in a 16mm disc (1mm to spare top and bottom).

I did one with ging pre sinter color in the A2, looks really good for a A3. If I were to
use the zirconia, I may end up in doing that for most of the shades, a A2 for a A3, a A 3 for a A3.5, pre coloring the
gingival. I do like that they have all the vita shades as well as bleach shades.

View attachment 34922

View attachment 34923

What would you use for A1?

 

[Car 54]

The next step lighter bleach shade, I think they have 3 of those.

 

[rkm rdt]

Those don't look like the preshaded ones we get from argen.

 

[Car 54]

In what way?
Also realize I'm not using a real high end camera.

 

[rkm rdt]

In what way?
Also realize I'm not using a real high end camera.

do you colour then before sintering?

 

[Car 54]

Just the ones on the bottom of both photos. Both were in the A2 ST ML disc. The ones on the top of photos are of an untouched A2,
with the bottom ones, I painted with Beyond liquid pre sinter on ~the ging 1/2.

 

[rkm rdt]

We have Argen mill and sinter ours and we find the shades to be good.
I think the more translucent the crown is the more the value can drop just like emax.
Maybe thickness is now a factor we have to consider.

 

[Car 54]

I agree. I should mill and sinter some molars and see how they look.

 

[rkm rdt]

I agree, I should mill and sinter some molars and see how they look.

I usually order the shade I can replicate in the incisal area. 3M1's are ordered as D2 for example.
Our Miyo recipe book is our go to manual.
Maybe I could buy some trendy eyewear and go on the lecture circuit?

 

[Car 54]

I usually order the shade I can replicate in the incisal area. 3M1's are ordered as D2 for example.
Our Miyo recipe book is our go to manual.
Maybe I could buy some trendy eyewear and go on the lecture circuit?

That sounds like a good rule of thumb. Sign me up for your lecture, as long as it's not in Florida, it sounds like to much crazy stuff goes on down there

 

[Getoothachopper]

I thought the Argen ST ML A2 shade was a bit low value Inc wise, and maybe lacking a bit of chroma.
Here is a test cuspid, it was 14mm long in a 16mm disc (1mm to spare top and bottom).

I did one with ging pre sinter color in the A2, looks really good for a A3. If I were to
use the zirconia, I may end up in doing that for most of the shades, a A2 for a A3, a A 3 for a A3.5, pre coloring the
gingival. I do like that they have all the vita shades as well as bleach shades.

View attachment 34922

View attachment 34923

Wow , great info ,thank you . They look as if they don't overdo it with the incisal portion like some brands do . Do you tend to mill them lower in the puck too ?

 

[Car 54]

Wow , great info ,thank you . They look as if they don't overdo it with the incisal portion like some brands do . Do you tend to mill them lower in the puck too ?

Thanks, and you're welcome
I thought the emax Prime was like that, to much Inc and almost a line where the inc stopped and the body started, "the Prime line".

To be honest, I had my rep send me this disc, (you should be able to get a free one from your rep?) so I could see what it looked like in case my mill
goes down, I'd know what to ask for from Argen from my stl file. Otherwise, everything for me is Beyond Plus, so I'm not sure what to tell you about maybe
getting a thicker disc with greater ability to position it better in a sweet spot? This long cuspid almost took up the whole disc, except the top and bottom 1mm.

edit: I do use Bruxzir Shaded for one of my accounts, but that's a whole different story.

 

[Car 54]

In hand, there is a bit more Inc look, but it's not stark, it's a nice warm color. My camera blended the look a bit by them being horizontal.
This look is closer to what I see in hand. A lesson learned on my end, when shooting zircoina crowns, vertical is better

 

[Contraluz]

"the Prime line".

Funny you say that. I just had a disc with that characteristics! I called Ivoclar and, guess what, they have never heard of it before...

 

[Car 54]

Funny you say that. I just had a disc with that characteristics! I called Ivoclar and, guess what, they have never heard of it before...

A rep who stops by, mentioned the "the Prime line" to me after I told her I could almost see the Inc body junction. She said that's what another lab nicknamed it.
It's good to know it's not just us.

 

[Contraluz]

A rep who stops by,

So, my Ivoclar rep was supposed to swing by, last week, but he called in sick. Coincidence??? I will insist again and see what else they have to say, now that I have a bit more knowledge...

 

[Car 54]

So, my Ivoclar rep was supposed to swing by, last week, but he called in sick. Coincidence??? I will insist again and see what else they have to say, now that I have a bit more knowledge...

The cuspid I used in the photos, is the one I used for the Prime, so with it being so long, took
up both sides of the body and Inc in the disc, compared to if it was a molar that was in the disc in a different place?