Advice on Design Software for dentist and in House Lab

[skidoc]

I'm about to go digital and hope to find a technician to work in our lab. I'm looking for recommendations. Most commonly dentists go CEREC, but I am unhappy that the system is closed and can't send to my favorite small lab.

1.I am considering 3 Shape Treos as its the best intra oral scanner. can a tech use it to scan models until he gets too busy?

2. How user friendly is the 3 Shape design software? I wax my own cosmetic and reconstructive cases to plan and design temps. Would it be faster and easier to design on 3shape and send to lab to print model for me to use as template for my temps? or should I stick with waxing?

3. I'm mostly an emax user with a taste for deep detailed anatomy. Mostly large cases but unsplinted. do you think the new roland dx4w would mill emax to my satisfaction. Maybe refine occlusal anatomy in blue stage with diamond bur? That stuff is hard to cut sharpness into.

Or should we just send out to milling center for wax milling and pressing and return with 3d model for final layering and finishing?

4. Anyone have any luck converting CEREC to STL's of sufficient quality so that I might consider a CEREC and still use the labs of my choice?

Thanks for your input!

 

[grantoz]

I have said this before find the technician you want in your lab and then work out what system you need .A high quality techo he or she will know what to do next.Let the expert help you or you will waste a lot of time and cash.

 

[CatamountRob]

Yep, I agree. You're buying a pair of shoes and then trying to find someone that fits into them.

Damn. That looks like something Tommy the Texan would write.

 

[grantoz]

CatamountRob being a banned member what instrument do you play?

 

[CatamountRob]

CatamountRob being a banned member what instrument do you play?

The sarcastaphone mostly....

 

[rkm rdt]

Join the Trios Study Club on Facebook skidoc.
Yes , a technician can scan models with it but then what?

You'll still need design software.

You lost me at cerec.

 

[skidoc]

Join the Trios Study Club on Facebook skidoc.
Yes , a technician can scan models with it but then what?

You'll still need design software.

You lost me at cerec.

question #2 is about the 3 shape design software I was considering. Wondering about its ability for me to do my waxups digitally.

I understand it makes the most sense to get a ceramist first, but I've had zero luck. Im amazed that their is no one interested in the op to work in a place with world class king and legal weed!

But I'd still like to get into cad/cam as a dentist anyway. If I bought the 3 shape/Roland combo, I could send my big cases to the lab from my treos, do some single units in house for those in a rush(resort community),and have some decent equipment in house IF someone ever comes. Considering 3 shape is so popular, what's the harm with starting in that direction? Less than a cerec, and better at my full mouth waxups I do by hand now? You guys love the mention of cerec

 

[2thm8kr]

question #2 is about the 3 shape design software I was considering. Wondering about its ability for me to do my waxups digitally.

I understand it makes the most sense to get a ceramist first, but I've had zero luck. Im amazed that their is no one interested in the op to work in a place with world class king and legal weed!

But I'd still like to get into cad/cam as a dentist anyway. If I bought the 3 shape/Roland combo, I could send my big cases to the lab from my treos, do some single units in house for those in a rush(resort community),and have some decent equipment in house IF someone ever comes. Considering 3 shape is so popular, what's the harm with starting in that direction? Less than a cerec, and better at my full mouth waxups I do by hand now? You guys love the mention of cerec

I highly recommend Cerec.

 

[rkm rdt]

question #2 is about the 3 shape design software I was considering. Wondering about its ability for me to do my waxups digitally.

I understand it makes the most sense to get a ceramist first, but I've had zero luck. Im amazed that their is no one interested in the op to work in a place with world class king and legal weed!

But I'd still like to get into cad/cam as a dentist anyway. If I bought the 3 shape/Roland combo, I could send my big cases to the lab from my treos, do some single units in house for those in a rush(resort community),and have some decent equipment in house IF someone ever comes. Considering 3 shape is so popular, what's the harm with starting in that direction? Less than a cerec, and better at my full mouth waxups I do by hand now? You guys love the mention of cerec

You can do digital waxups with the 3 Shape design software. It would take practice but possible.

I'm too old for legal weed.

 

[skidoc]

Thanks rkm, would I get faster than doing it it wax? Or stick with wax?

How old are you?!?jk

 

[rkm rdt]

Thanks rkm, would I get faster than doing it it wax? Or stick with wax?

How old are you?!?jk

I would stick with hand waxing until you get proficient at cad . It took me a while and I still have to tweek the results by hand.
However you can scan your wax ups and study models and copy mill temps from that.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

question #2 is about the 3 shape design software I was considering. Wondering about its ability for me to do my waxups digitally.

I understand it makes the most sense to get a ceramist first, but I've had zero luck. Im amazed that their is no one interested in the op to work in a place with world class king and legal weed!

But I'd still like to get into cad/cam as a dentist anyway. If I bought the 3 shape/Roland combo, I could send my big cases to the lab from my treos, do some single units in house for those in a rush(resort community),and have some decent equipment in house IF someone ever comes. Considering 3 shape is so popular, what's the harm with starting in that direction? Less than a cerec, and better at my full mouth waxups I do by hand now? You guys love the mention of cerec

while RKM makes good points it is my opinion that doing waxups is a crutch. the really long method. you won't get better at CAD if you stick to waxups. they remove all of the 3space thinking.

dive in with both feet; do a unit with the 3shape software without a net. learning how to correctly morph and smooth - look so many docs can easily say some shmuck doesnt make nice designs. but its not hard to do; its equally not hard to screw up. that doesnt make the software bad, only its operator who has too little experience in what constitutes correct and good design.

now, you know good correct design (i'd expect) so it wont be much of a learning curve for you to design cases correctly. you know what you want; a lot of designers working at box labs don't.

its not going to be hard for you to get 3shape working the way you want.

 

[Affinity]

skidoc, aspen would be an amazing place to be an inhouse lab, but have you thought about what you would pay an in-house tech? The cost of living is high there and most techs like me that could and would be able to run everything, wouldnt take the pay cut, or want the stress that comes with being in-house. What is your model to entice a tech there? hell, entice me! I said it before, but 2 years ago I wouldve leaped at the chance! You can PM if you want.

To answer your question, get a trios and a small mill depending on your volume. DIY!

 

[Affinity]

also to answer your question, the roland will not mill e.max, only wax which can then be pressed. Ceramill motion2 would be your best bet.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

2 years ago i did make the leap; i leaped from my family's home in Toronto to Saskatchewan. was offered a fantastic opportunity to work as part of a team and carry the lab integrating new and innovative solutions as we go forward.

i think i've done a pretty good job of it so far; integrating Trios, two new milling machines, my newest addition my Wacom Cintiq 22HD. and generating digital business here via DLN.

these are the kinds of thing you will want your digital partner to do with/for you skidoc.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

also to answer your question, the roland will not mill e.max, only wax which can then be pressed. Ceramill motion2 would be your best bet.

if you are at all interested in milled emax, planmill wasn't too difficult to figure out.

 

[Andrew Priddy]

I highly recommend Cerec.

Better yet, get 2 or 3

 

[skidoc]

coolhand, thanks for the encouragement.

Affinity, I don't come with any preconceived notions on how to structure the deal as there are so many different ways to do it. I'm open to discussing all options and figuring out a win-win. I manage to hire dental assistants, so I am sure a ceramist can make the finances work.

As for the roland mill, the new wet mill will mill emax for 25k. 3D Biocad says they have one for 30k. Any thoughts on this company?

Thanks for your help everyone.

 

[Boozy woozy]

Another option would be to look at the Coritech 250i. It will do the same job if not better with a wider range of options to your disposal. it's a more robust machine and it is very close in terms of price to the millers you just mentioned. Like they say "German engineering"