3Shape Cement Gap

[FastShipper]

Hey all,
We just had a doctor call and say that our crowns are rocking in the patients mouths and aren't fitting well, (he just recently switched from all PFMs to all Zirconia). All of our other doctors are happy with what we're sending out but I'm curious what everyone is using for their cement gap and extra cement gap in 3Shape. We're considering using die spacer that adds 12 microns of relief and setting 3Shape to 0 and seeing where that takes us ... which I know is ridiculous because 3Shape is able to do the same thing. Everything that gets sent out fits and functions well but I'd like to play with the settings and send him a couple different variations to see what works best for him.

 

[rkm rdt]

Prep design has an effect on the fit. You can customize the fit/spacer to that dr in the control panel I think. @Sevan P ?
I have one dr that likes it a bit tighter....cue the remarks.....

 

[Car 54]

This is my default for normal preps and I go from there. More spacer as needed for bigger preps and ones that have longer axial walls.
If there isn't a lot of retention, I'll go, maybe, to 12/45. For me, it's more of a prep to prep call, than a 1 setting for all thing.

 

[FastShipper]

I have mine set to: Cement gap 0.040, and Extra cement gap 0.070. I'm wondering if ours are too loose for him ...

 

[JMN]

I have mine set to: Cement gap 0.040, and Extra cement gap 0.070. I'm wondering if ours are too loose for him ...

From an analog perspective that seems like a whole lotta space. Max we ever did was 24microns. I know it's different with different materials and techiques, but over 4 times that seems excessive.

 

[Car 54]

I have mine set to: Cement gap 0.040, and Extra cement gap 0.070. I'm wondering if ours are too loose for him ...

That setting seems like the dme settings from outsource companies who just want to make sure everything seats.

When I have a bigger prep, I go to 15/50-55. I have one account who does feather margins and that setting seems to work.
You could probably cut your numbers in 1/2, and go from there.

 

[FastShipper]

The lab I used to work at uses 0.000 for cement gap and 0.090 for extra cement gap and I don't remember having any issues with fit from doctors. What exactly is the difference between the two settings?

 

[Car 54]

One goes all the way down to the margin, cement gap, the other, extra, goes as far down as you want it to, distance to margin line setting.

My emax frames for wax up and press, are .010 and .010, just as a reference.

What I like about cement gap, is that you can hit Preview (maybe it will Preview w/o cement gap?),and it will show you where your margin is, where you created
your margin line, just to help verify that before you go into design. I like the peace of mind of Cement gap, in giving me a little margin forgiveness.

 

[2thm8kr]

Max we ever did was 24microns.

With solvent based spacer and a brush?

 

[user name]

Pour an extra die. Mill something in PMMA (with your Zr parameters). Bond it to the die. Cut it in half. Its good to have a visual tool.

 

[Sda36]

Hey all,
We just had a doctor call and say that our crowns are rocking in the patients mouths and aren't fitting well, (he just recently switched from all PFMs to all Zirconia). All of our other doctors are happy with what we're sending out but I'm curious what everyone is using for their cement gap and extra cement gap in 3Shape. We're considering using die spacer that adds 12 microns of relief and setting 3Shape to 0 and seeing where that takes us ... which I know is ridiculous because 3Shape is able to do the same thing. Everything that gets sent out fits and functions well but I'd like to play with the settings and send him a couple different variations to see what works best for him.

You may also want to check to ensure Dr. is timing their impressions. Has that effect, amongst others,crucial to know or constant headaches

 

[kimba]

0.04 and 0.07 does seem excessive to me. my default is .010 and .040,
but I do change it for prep and some drs
Yousaid the Dr changed from all PFM to all zirk. Were the PFMs all analogue.? They would have felt much firmer in he mouth than Zirk with your default settings as well I bet

 

[JMN]

With solvent based spacer and a brush?

Ueah. Geo taub silber and gold are 6 each when kept properly.

 

[2thm8kr]

Ueah. Geo taub silber and gold are 6 each when kept properly.

Good luck.

 

[Sevan P]

My setting for Zr and wax

Cement gap 0.02
Extra gap 0.06
Distance to margin .65
smooth 0.15
Drill Radius 0.550
Drill comp 0.550

Not if your looking for a tighter fit the Cement and extra gap will work to an extent. Better ff to drop the drill comp. But manage your simulation in cam to make sure the tighter comp isn't too tight and leaving material unmillable.

But everyone has there own setting they like. Also for implant i just alter cement to 0.01 and extra to 0.03 or 0.025 get some good fits, but this is determined by the amount of spray used on abutment.

 

[FastShipper]

So I set it to 0.000 and 0.090 and it seems to be working better. I might tighten up the drill radius and comp settings to see if I can't get it even better. Thanks for the help guys!

 

[JMN]

So I set it to 0.000 and 0.090 and it seems to be working better. I might tighten up the drill radius and comp settings to see if I can't get it even better. Thanks for the help guys!

Great! Glad it's working better. thanks much for the update!