Bad Spindle Evidence?

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How do you know when a spindle is going bad?

Specifically, VHF M-200 with a Jager.

I had some crowns that looked like a 1mm bur was used in place of the .6 on the anatomy. Touch plate looks fine, tools are in the right locations and arent near wear limits yet. Grrr
 
JMN

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How do you know when a spindle is going bad?

Specifically, VHF M-200 with a Jager.

I had some crowns that looked like a 1mm bur was used in place of the .6 on the anatomy. Touch plate looks fine, tools are in the right locations and arent near wear limits yet. Grrr
Grab the burr with your fingers when it is in the spindle. It should not be mobile. If the burr can be freely wobbled side to side or even worse up and down it is needing rebuilt.
 
CoolHandLuke

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if it gets noisy, vibratey, hot, becomes an air pig, or when your tool runout is too high.
 
zero_zero

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How many hours does it have ?
 
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test the run out with a dial gauge
 
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bigbrush

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Did you clean the collet?
 
Wainwright

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Spindles have bearings in them to spin freely just like a wheel of a car. If the bearing is wearing out you will typically hear it start to whine and slowly get worse. Also, most spindles can spin freely by hand when they are turned off and you can actually feel the smoothness that they spin. Try this on a new spindle to get an idea of what's normal, spinning a bad spindle you can feel roughness or "chunkiness".

Jager spindles are pretty well known and there are many non-dental companies that can actually refurbish these spindles. I use to know a company I think in North Carolina that did a good job and was much cheaper than replacing the part with a new one. I'd start googling and calling to see what you can find.

A collet going bad is totally different than the spindle. In my experience vibrations and tool slippage (the tool will slide down as it cuts, many people will see gouged anatomy or inconsistent cutting) is a sign that a collet has gone bad or deformed. Pretty easy to replace collets if you can order the part individually. Although it should be mentioned that a tool with the incorrect shank diameter or simply a dirty collet (grease or dust) could show all these same warning signs... So this ones a bit less obvious.

Good luck!
 
Wainwright

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Oh, one more thing. The mill manufacturer should provide a maintenance schedule for your spindle. For example, an Amann Girrbach mill should have spindle maintenance between 500 and 1000 hours (don't quote me on this, I'm going from memory). Where Roland recommends spindle replacement if it goes bad and the typical life of the spindle will be around 2000 to 3000 hours.

All you might need is some maintenance to get you back to normal. Give VHF a call.
 
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Thanks everyone.

I do clean and lube the collet very regularly.

Im pretty sure the spindle isnt my issue, but just wasnt sure what were indications of one going bad were.

So...My batch of FCZ from yesterday...
The intaglio and margins were fine. Occlusal anatomy looked odd. Like a 1mm bur had done a pass too deep,or a 1mm had been used instead of a .6. If it does it again, Ill remill in the other mill and shoot a pic of the two to show what I mean.
 
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If margins are fine the spindle can`t be the fault.
Check you places of the burrs!!
 
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I jst milled one in the problem mill. I watched closely the whole time. When it picked up the last bur, the .6mm, there was a small gap between the stop ring and the collet. Pic isnt the best, but on the other burs the snap ring is right up against the collet. With the .6 theres about 3/4 mm gap.
Why could that happen? Its clearly the point of issue. Its then over penetrating what it should while milling.
32283
 
Car 54

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Worn gromet area for that bur?
New bur from a different company?
 
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Worn gromet area for that bur?
New bur from a different company?
Same burs as always. The rubber bur holder seems to retain them very securely, although Ive never replaced and redrilled it.
Waiting on a call from tech support. Ill let ya'll know what they say.
 
Tayebdental

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It could be the electric touch point measuring prematurely on the .6mm bur for some reason. Bur shaft not smooth?!
 
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It could be the electric touch point measuring prematurely on the .6mm bur for some reason. Bur shaft not smooth?!
Bus are clean and smooth. I thought about maybe the tiny bur is reaching deeper into a divot on the touch point to get continuity. There are a couple divots, but I cant see exactly where its touching. Touch point was moved not too long ago. I would think that even if the bur was grabbed short like my pic shows, and theres a gap to the stop ring, it still has to touch off, and thats how it knows its length. (?)
Ill visit with tech support when they call, but now youve got me thinking...
If I just replace the touch plate and recalibrate I bet itll be good.
 
Car 54

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Right, as the divot for that bur going down into isn't ~3/4 of a mm. but maybe enough to throw it off?

I like the new touch plate and calibration idea, can't go wrong with that.
 
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Right, as the divot for that bur going down into isn't ~3/4 of a mm. but maybe enough to throw it off?

I like the new touch plate and calibration idea, can't go wrong with that.
Apparently Jensen now allows labs to move their own touch point. It used to be a free service to owners of their mills, but its now a $75 dollar charge. Milling the touch point is also part of the new deal from them, but I havent received that email. It costs $23 for a new touch plate, so thats what Ive been doing.
 
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Tech support helped. It was touching in a divot. Apparently the new software that Ill be getting next week doesnt alow moving the touch point. You just have the ability to plane it down as needed.
@doug Have you worked with this yet?
 
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Tech support helped. It was touching in a divot. Apparently the new software that Ill be getting next week doesnt alow moving the touch point. You just have the ability to plane it down as needed.
@doug Have you worked with this yet?
We are having the rubber gromet that holds the burs replaced this afternoon. We've had the same issue and that should be the fix. I'm also going to try to get the CAM update as well. It will take care of the touch plate maintenance so we don't need to call tech support. Plus, if it runs on windows 10 I can put it on both setups to make puck nesting a lot more efficient
 
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what is the cost of a new spindle for a Rolland DWX4w. Know anyone who would change the spindle for me. The Roland service sucks. I am in the Boston area.
 

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