Zenostar MT evaluation.

[GoldRunner]

We have tried the Zenostar MT and A2 shade of the coloring liquids. After 10 crowns I have to say we are still working out some issues. Don't expect a super translucent crown. Ivoclar implys that the MT zirconia will correlate to eMax MT in translucency. Our material does not look like that. MT is supposed to be between HT and LT. The benefit should be enough translucency without having the value drop. This is only a problem with very translucent zirconia or HT eMax.

The MT is not as "reflective"as Zenostar T, but if you are familiar with super trans material you will probably be disappointed. We fire the MT in an Ivoclar S1 using their "new program 7." Our Zenostar T comes out beautiful, probably better than with their other program. The nice thing is that both the T and MT can be fired in the same cycle unlike some of the multi layer trans high temp material. Also the MT is nice because it is less chippy finishing than a super trans material.

The other issue is shading. Following the directions is a great place to start, but remember you are starting from an uncolored disk. This can lead to inconsistency do to crown thickness and shape. Thin crowns will require less stain and definitely no stain on the inside or they will come out dark. Only use a very small amount of the color marker in the stain liquid as it might cause a dark or muddy color. We have only tried one shade in an effort to dial it in. How about making shaded MT disks similar to the T?

So overall, MT is an interesting material and can fill a niche for bicuspids and anteriors not requiring much translucency while being less reflective than Zenostar T. It would micro layer very nicely. In all fairness I have talked to Pat about this and he thinks that the Zenostar MT is similar in translucency to emax MT (verified by testing) so maybe we can improve our results. How have other made out?

 

[le-ant]

We have tried the Zenostar MT and A2 shade of the coloring liquids. After 10 crowns I have to say we are still working out some issues. Don't expect a super translucent crown. Ivoclar implys that the MT zirconia will correlate to eMax MT in translucency. Our material does not look like that. MT is supposed to be between HT and LT. The benefit should be enough translucency without having the value drop. This is only a problem with very translucent zirconia or HT eMax.

The MT is not as "reflective"as Zenostar T, but if you are familiar with super trans material you will probably be disappointed. We fire the MT in an Ivoclar S1 using their "new program 7." Our Zenostar T comes out beautiful, probably better than with their other program. The nice thing is that both the T and MT can be fired in the same cycle unlike some of the multi layer trans high temp material. Also the MT is nice because it is less chippy finishing than a super trans material.

The other issue is shading. Following the directions is a great place to start, but remember you are starting from an uncolored disk. This can lead to inconsistency do to crown thickness and shape. Thin crowns will require less stain and definitely no stain on the inside or they will come out dark. Only use a very small amount of the color marker in the stain liquid as it might cause a dark or muddy color. We have only tried one shade in an effort to dial it in. How about making shaded MT disks similar to the T?

So overall, MT is an interesting material and can fill a niche for bicuspids and anteriors not requiring much translucency while being less reflective than Zenostar T. It would micro layer very nicely. In all fairness I have talked to Pat about this and he thinks that the Zenostar MT is similar in translucency to emax MT (verified by testing) so maybe we can improve our results. How have other made out?

We received our sample last week, I'll post the findings next week. We will be using dental direkt coloring liquids.

 

[JohnWilson]

We have been playing with it too, like ALL 600mpa style gen 2 zircon the colorants and consistency is tricky. The new Wieland colors are INTENSE. We are also working with the NEW White Peeks colors and they are equally intense and need dilution. There are a ton of choices with their WATERBASE colors as well.

These two racks are for both the 1200mpa style zinc and the 600mpa

 

[Getoothachopper]

View attachment 20780 We have been playing with it too, like ALL 600mpa style gen 2 zircon the colorants and consistency is tricky. The new Wieland colors are INTENSE. We are also working with the NEW White Peeks colors and they are equally intense and need dilution. There are a ton of choices with their WATERBASE colors as well.

These two racks are for both the 1200mpa style zinc and the 600mpa

Where did you get the perspex Tier shelving from Iv'e been looking for something like that for a long while now.

 

[Tayebdental]

http://www.displaycaseart.com/Acrylicstepsandstairs.html

 

[JohnWilson]

Where did you get the perspex Tier shelving from Iv'e been looking for something like that for a long while now.

search amazon or any website for nail polish display. less than $10 a rack and they work great, my ocd did kick in when I was unable to get the last bottle in ideally but I am over it now

 

[cadfan]

View attachment 20780 We have been playing with it too, like ALL 600mpa style gen 2 zircon the colorants and consistency is tricky. The new Wieland colors are INTENSE. We are also working with the NEW White Peeks colors and they are equally intense and need dilution. There are a ton of choices with their WATERBASE colors as well.

These two racks are for both the 1200mpa style zinc and the 600mpa

my wife would like it too if different red nail color is inside

 

[GoldRunner]

JW how translucent is your Zenostar MT? Does it look anywhere close to eMax MT?

 

[JohnWilson]

Its VERY translucent, what is the high temperature on your S1 that your sintering at?

 

[Getoothachopper]

Thanks so much for the info on the Acrylic stands guys . I think iv'e found what I need

 

[GoldRunner]

Our MT does not look much more translucent than the T? We down loaded the new software for the S1 and use the preprogrammed # 7 I think. The high temp is 1450 C with a hold time of two hours.

By the way we have a Wieland thermostar P1 that has given us trouble for about two years. Sorry to say, but Ivoclar has tried to help esp. Pat (thank you) but contacting Thermostar directly by email has been useless. Getting very pissed at this point and our sales rep doesn't seem to give a crap. Then they wonder why we buy equipment or milling machines from other companies? Just letting a10k piece of equipment sit around does not contribute to warm fuzzies about Ivoclar.

 

[JohnWilson]

You should call me about your P1 I have had one for going on 4 years with minimal issues. It fires every day, an over night program. We do not use any speed programs in our process. It has had some issues with the flash drive card but its an easy fix. I have bought items directly from Thermostar and yes they can be a bear to work with but let me see if I can help you get yours back up and running. PM or give me a call

The problem with the S1 is its high temp, Ivoclar wants to sell ovens that they produced before acquiring Wieland. People that fire the old zeno get the best results with a high temp above what the S1 can provide. Ivoclar in their infinite wisdom forced Wieland for some time to drop the Thermostar line here i the states in my opinion to sell old stock of S1's Today I believe you can buy P1 and M2+ through Ivoclar. Also am I correct that the NEW version of the S1 can go higher in temp than the original???

 

[Andy B]

we have had some nice results with mt, here is our first case, again not quite as nice as emax but overall a good result

 

[DanM]

JohnWilson What is your high temp (I know every oven is different, but was looking for other starting points)? I'm at 1500 based on a program I found in their instructions. I've had varying results, good but not great. Would like to see more translucency. But at least the shades match well and not low value as compared to other HT I've used.

Has anyone noticed their new flexural strength numbers on all their literature? MT >=550MPa and T >=900MPa. I have old info that says T 1200MPa +/-200 (I thought I saw MT 700MPa once). I've seen the charts with other materials showing the varying strength so I know this is probably a more accurate way to go and I'm not worried about its strength. But in a day where "twice as strong as emax" exists I was wondering how this looks (maybe to docs) and any of your thoughts?

 

[Patrick Coon]

Hi all,

Goldrunner, Yes the Zenostar MT has about the same translucency level as an e.max MT, but because we are dealing with an oxide ceramic instead of a glass ceramic they will look different. The cubic zirconias (like Zenostar MT) are still zirconia and will scatter the light more than glass (e.max). So if you put Zenostar MT and e.max MT side by side, they will look different.

John, Yes the new S1 1600 had the option to be able to go all the way to 1600C. None of the preinstalled programs will do that (they are the same programs as before),but the individual programs will let you go al the way up.

 

[Patrick Coon]

JohnWilson What is your high temp (I know every oven is different, but was looking for other starting points)? I'm at 1500 based on a program I found in their instructions. I've had varying results, good but not great. Would like to see more translucency. But at least the shades match well and not low value as compared to other HT I've used.

Has anyone noticed their new flexural strength numbers on all their literature? MT >=550MPa and T >=900MPa. I have old info that says T 1200MPa +/-200 (I thought I saw MT 700MPa once). I've seen the charts with other materials showing the varying strength so I know this is probably a more accurate way to go and I'm not worried about its strength. But in a day where "twice as strong as emax" exists I was wondering how this looks (maybe to docs) and any of your thoughts?

Hi DanM,

As for the strength values in the charts, those are the ISO standards for the class of material, if you check the footnotes for each of those you will see the average tested values are still the same. This is how we are required by FDA and other agencies of listing it in the IFU (Instructions For Use). I don't like it either, because of this type of confusion.

I hope this clears it up a little.

 

[GoldRunner]

Ok got my P1 back together with a new element. Test fired some MT shade A2 at a higher temp. Results are much better than firing in the S1. Go figure. Thank you Pat and John for your suggestions and encouragement. Thanks to Paul in the repair department.

Trying some more shades. A nice balance between translucency and value. Not as "bright" as Zenostar T (which is a very nice material)and looks very toothy. The milling and post sinter margin finishing is fantastic. Never liked the Cube X2, Imagine, etc. type of super translucent zirconia for finishing and surface texture (looked pitted microscopically).

 

[JohnWilson]

I told ya

Glad you got it sorted, now make sure you buy the cover for your sintering oven and sinter covered on the plate I will PM you Monday with the temps sorry I forgot to do it today.

Enjoy the weekend

 

[GoldRunner]

Ok now the BAD news. We fired some more MT units in the P1 and they are all contaminated. Same cycle, drying times, etc. This is an oven problem, not a material problem.

I am really frustrated with the P1 at this point.

 

[Getoothachopper]

Ok now the BAD news. We fired some more MT units in the P1 and they are all contaminated. Same cycle, drying times, etc. This is an oven problem, not a material problem.

I am really frustrated with the P1 at this point.

I empathize . It really sucks when things start to go wrong in the lab (You need to get a new Avatar with you looking @ a sintering oven rather than a PC)