Natural Looking Dentures

[Kreyer]

Where did you get the idea this was a clinic at 6000 a set? I too believe you can get high quality with high production but lets not forget all of the other bs that can screw with an in house techs day relines, repairs, resets etc. . I believe if you want high quality over a long period of time you need to have the right staff and you surely don't want them burned out in 2 years. My advise is to set yourself up with someone with great potential and fine tune them into becoming a great tech. Give them the support and training it will require to get there, and give them the techs to give support with relines repairs investing processing articulating or whatever else. I would like to see any of these guys produce five top notce dentures a day with relines, repairs and all of the other steps bites, trays, and so on. If you truly want this to work then set your lab up for success not to fall apart 2 years down the road.

Hydent

Who said one technician in the laboratory??

for 5 units of rem per day you need 2 Dt's
If you are doing extensive repairs/relines 3 Dt's
If a Dt is seeing patients chairside...4 Dt's
10 per day requires 5 Dt's Definitely...plus one for chairside work..

Rob

 

[Clear Precision Dental]

You are correct sir... I hear Barotz down in Denver sets all 32 teeth himself, chairside!

I know Charles. He only sets the maxillary 8 anterior teeth. (Still more than most Docs). He charges around $5000 per arch, but he makes two dentures....one that is a trial denture, then a final that incorporates all the patient's desires corrected relative to the trial prosthesis.

He knows that I can make a superior denture than he can even offer, but he is good at selling what he does. I told him I would love the challenge. He makes one, I make one and let the patient decide.

I'll be in Fort Collins this week. My daughter starts college at CSU (move-in day is Thursday). I may look Ryan up.

 

[TheLabGuy]

I may look Ryan up.

I hope you do, give him a good 'ole school yard noogie from all of us.....

 

[hydent]

Hydent

Who said one technician in the laboratory??

for 5 units of rem per day you need 2 Dt's
If you are doing extensive repairs/relines 3 Dt's
If a Dt is seeing patients chairside...4 Dt's
10 per day requires 5 Dt's Definitely...plus one for chairside work..

Rob

I didn't mean to put words into your mouth Rob. Ten per day at a high quality pace is a big goal. You will need 5 dental techs as you say but my question to you is where do you find dental techs able to do the standard of work that Ryan is wanting to do? They aren't around every corner as you know.

 

[JohnWilson]

It is flattering to see removable pros morph in our industry.

I remember when I first got started guys doing dentures were originally guys who could not grind in secondary anatomy in crowns

Although I was never very good at grinding in secondary anatomy I certainly fell in love with denture teeth.

Finding a trained denture tech that has a minimum of 5 years experience is becoming a nightmare. I am looking right now for one and even though the market is flooded with good techs there are few denture techs looking for work. The ones that are coming in are step workers and not ""Complete" techs.

The search goes on.

 

[Kreyer]

It is flattering to see removable pros morph in our industry.

I remember when I first got started guys doing dentures were originally guys who could not grind in secondary anatomy in crowns

Although I was never very good at grinding in secondary anatomy I certainly fell in love with denture teeth.

Finding a trained denture tech that has a minimum of 5 years experience is becoming a nightmare. I am looking right now for one and even though the market is flooded with good techs there are few denture techs looking for work. The ones that are coming in are step workers and not ""Complete" techs.

The search goes on.

John You are so right!!

I get calls and emails every week from laboratories asking me where can they find an experienced technician..

The demand for experienced removable prosthetic techs is truly amazing!!

Rob

 

[CYNOSURER]

Disclaimer: I rarely festoon in wax. This doc wanted a festooned wax up and my waxer/quality control tech was out so I did this all on my lonesome.



I threw in some red wax to add a little pizzazz to it but then it seemed I carved most of it out. And it looks a little flat to me...I blame that on the damn photographer
...which is why I prefer to bulk wax and finish down. I (as in me, myself) feel I have more control over acrylic than wax...just feels like I have better feel in acrylic. Could be simply because I don't do that many wax ups (Bulk or festooned) very much any more...come to think of it, I don't do that many finishes any more either...I mostly do set ups and 95% of the cast partial department. I've always prided myself on being slightly ambidextrous, but my wax tech says my right handedness really shows in my gingival carving. Note how flat the mesial halves of the right side and distal halves of the left side are compared to the mesial halves of the left side and the distal halves of the right side. Damn, got to work on that.

Well, they say those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I salute those who have the stones to show their glass houses...let the stones fall where they may. I've chunked the first few...just to get the ball rolling. popcorn

 

[CYNOSURER]

Okay, here's the same case after a few corrections.

This guy:



wants to look like this guy:



Can you name that singer?

Only...don't you hate 'onlys' ...

1) switch to porcelian uppers.

2) Bigger teeth

3) Not as triangular

4) pointy cuspids and bigger left lateral than right lateral

5) yadda, yaddda, yadda.

Sending this out today:

 

[sensei]

Nice work Tim! Do your docs ever complain about the aggressive stippling?

 

[CYNOSURER]

Nice work Tim! Do your docs ever complain about the aggressive stippling?

I rarely stipple in wax. When it comes back I'll flame it smooth and stipple with a bur after processing. My stipple bur is a #4 round that I flatten one half and put in the chuck with about 15mm sticking out (so that it doesn't bounce). It gives a nice texture.

What do you mean by aggressive?

Are you talking amount? style or location? (I know need to back off the gingival just a tad and the borders will have a lot less after buffing) My finished stipple is so delicate it is easy to buff out if one is not careful.

The problem with stipple is that those who like it like it everywhere. Personally, I'd prefer not to have it past the 1st bicuspid but I don't like explaining why. It gets annoying...like explaining why Bioblend Cuspids are darker than the other teeth. My stipple doesn't present a hygiene problem for those who take care of their dentures.

 

[sensei]

I rarely stipple in wax. When it comes back I'll flame it smooth and stipple with a bur after processing. My stipple bur is a #4 round that I flatten one half and put in the chuck with about 15mm sticking out (so that it doesn't bounce). It gives a nice texture.

What do you mean by aggressive?

Are you talking amount? style or location? (I know need to back off the gingival just a tad and the borders will have a lot less after buffing) My finished stipple is so delicate it is easy to buff out if one is not careful.

The problem with stipple is that those who like it like it everywhere. Personally, I'd prefer not to have it past the 1st bicuspid but I don't like explaining why. It gets annoying...like explaining why Bioblend Cuspids are darker than the other teeth. My stipple doesn't present a hygiene problem for those who take care of their dentures.

LOL.

I guess it makes me rethink the term aggressive when you say it buffs out easily. From the picture I was under the impression that they were deep and rough. I was just imagining a hygiene nightmare.

If we are being nitpicky (and that's what this thread is about, right? ) I would prefer to see less stippling the further you get from the teeth. Natural stippling really only occurs in the attached gingiva (about 7-10mm from the neck of the tooth) and then turns into mucosa which is much smoother and shinier. If that gets buffed out though then I guess you achieve that effect.

I hope this doesn't come across wrong. Your work is 100X better than what I can do. I'm just a newb trying to get better by joining in the conversation.

 

[CYNOSURER]

I know what you mean about the stipple. But the problem here is to present an illusion that is accepted as natural. My gingival carving isn't natural but because it's plastic and not tissue the carving needs to give the illusion without the food traps. I love the way soft wax wraps around a tooth when you first push it in. It's a vey natural look...awfully hard to duplicate/maintain as you add more teeth but neat just the same, though it would be a cleaning nightmare. The same goes for the stipple. The purpose is not to emulate the natural state but to break up the light so that the denture base doesn't look like shiny plastic. Tissue can be smooth and look alive. Smooth plastic looks like plastic. But we have a slogan here...stipple should be seen not felt.

 

[Clear Precision Dental]

Beautiful wax-up, Tim!

 

[Sanhlabo]

Again, more on the lines of this...

Nice gumwork.Imitating gingiva recessions on centrals and abrasions on upper canines are also great.You are stretching the lips to showoff these.

 

[Sanhlabo]

Okay, here's the same case after a few corrections.

This guy:



wants to look like this guy:



Can you name that singer?

Only...don't you hate 'onlys' ...

1) switch to porcelian uppers.

2) Bigger teeth

3) Not as triangular

4) pointy cuspids and bigger left lateral than right lateral

5) yadda, yaddda, yadda.

Sending this out today:

Nice and hard working work Tim.Don't you think the stippling a little too much especially near the sulci? May cause staining in long term use and get dirty I think.

 

[CYNOSURER]

Beautiful wax-up, Tim!

Thanks. I sometimes wish I did more like these.

If I did I might invest in a electric waxer...oh, wait, I have one that I used to use with partials and the one that came with my entarra unit...hmm, maybe I'll play with them in my spare time see if I can't speed things up.

This was done with my 10 minute denture waxing technique (AS SEEN ON: Cynosure Dental Laboratory...under 'Tips for Techs) though the extra festooning (with a denture scraper and alcohol torch) added another 3 minutes and blending in the red and 'white' wax ate up an extra couple of minutes.

popcorn

 

[kcdt]

Tim FWIW, one of my earliest lab jobs used a technique similar to your ten minute waxup (at least I remember the lathe and brush wheel).
I now use a waxing unit and have for some time. The control is what I really like about a unit. A lot less time is spend removing wax form where it shouldn't be...

 

[CYNOSURER]

Tim FWIW, one of my earliest lab jobs used a technique similar to your ten minute waxup (at least I remember the lathe and brush wheel).

Yes Ken, but most used a small B20. The key is to use the wider brush and slow but steady burnishing.

I now use a waxing unit and have for some time. The control is what I really like about a unit. A lot less time is spend removing wax form where it shouldn't be...

Getting wax on is the slow part for me. Getting wax off not so much. I've developed a way with my current technique to add the colored wax without much effort.
I added some red boxing wax to the small front compartment and used the small back one for my white...it's regular wax whose dyes have cooked out and sunk to the bottom as I rarely use either of these two sections.



I used the MBA technique to incorporate it into the wax up and the brush wheel, roach carver, and denture scraper (the wooden handled one, below) did the rest.

My wax tools:

 

[CYNOSURER]

Nice and hard working work Tim.Don't you think the stippling a little too much especially near the sulci? May cause staining in long term use and get dirty I think.

I think a lot of what looks like stipple is water droplets...I should probably dry my wax up off before I photo. Here's a close up from the same group of photos. Note all the water on the teeth and how many stipples look like they could be water drops...it's all an illusion:

 

[CYNOSURER]

And no guesses on the singer???

My source says she recognized it as a photo off an old Mac Davis album.

I can neither confirm or rebut.