Lost account to Cerec

[martintay]

I had a doctor tell me point blank today: "I only care about price, the patients don't know anything about quality - so why would I pay those big prices?"

It's a sad world out there

This attitude is becoming more common unfortunatly !!

 

[Car 54]

Yes, their losing their conscience, and care and concern for the patients. Times like these reveal character, and what lies beneath.

I had one ask a couple of weeks ago if I could beat the price for a crown (really low) and I said no, "that I didn't want to get into the race to the bottom, and go to 1970s prices", he said it was for the patients, to save them money. I know what his fees are, and if that was the case, he would be charging $350. a crown, at those lab prices.

 

[JMN]

I feel for you. We've lost over an account a year to patterson/cerac. Our area has a real high pressure stop in twice every week when ya gonna get rid of your monthly lab bill type of lier, er... salesman. These docs don't realize that just because its digital doesn't mean better. Or that they still have a lab bill, just that they have to pay through the nose to have it internal instead of external.

I bet most of them prefer analog dimmer light switches over digital on/off only ones!

Ethically I dont get it either.

We do have one rare guy who LOWERED his implant crown prices after he realized he was doing less work than for regular crown. Ethics do live on, sometimes.

 

[NicelyMKV]

Thanks for the input guys

Paul, I have been looking at dental shaper for several months now. I do have cerec design software but nothing to export it to. Sum3D has an importer module that will allow you to import a cerec design and mill. Just trying to decide if it is worth the cost when this one count has already cut out 70% of the work he is sending....


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[martintay]

Thanks for the input guys

Paul, I have been looking at dental shaper for several months now. I do have cerec design software but nothing to export it to. Sum3D has an importer module that will allow you to import a cerec design and mill. Just trying to decide if it is worth the cost when this one count has already cut out 70% of the work he is sending....

I honestly dont think its worth spending $$$ chaseing these accounts- they need to find out the hard way in their own time !

 

[paulg100]

"I honestly dont think its worth spending $$$ chaseing these accounts- they need to find out the hard way in their own time !"

i dont think so either.

im happy just to do the more complex work, and let them or another lab mess about with the simple low $ margin rubbish. But then im a small lab, i dont have to worry about keeping mouths fed.

 

[rkm rdt]

Jason ,if this client is sending you 15K/month then why don't you purchase the inlab system and give him what he wants?

 

[paulg100]

Jason ,if this client is sending you 15K/month then why don't you purchase the inlab system and give him what he wants?

HAR HAR

15k a mouth turnover, but how much profit.. how many nuggets you gotta spit out with crap lab and for how long to pay for that junk. Having said that, you dont have to buy new, theres tons of second hand systems about.

You can have our mcxl if you line.. make me an offer. Shipping to states would be around $500 at a guess.

 

[rkm rdt]

You can lease the whole shebang for about 1K/mnth so there's no need to buy used.

Obviously the other lab is happy to get another 15K/mnth.

 

[jthacke3]

$15K per month is a lot and probably more than he can handle in house. of my top 12 customers have Cerecs. Look for ways to support him and preserve the relationship.

 

[ts4341]

Jason, I feel for you bro... Thats sucks.. I hate those Pr#cks at Sirona, Cerec and Patterson.. I got soaked for $30,000 on one of their first Cerec in 2004. Their Cerec equipment & Sirona software suck as well.. I always knew their agenda was to eliminate the dental labs and focus on the big money dentists.. Oh they will take our $, but they also are the one's twisting the knife.. Look for new dentists that want quality restorations. T

 

[NicelyMKV]

Jason ,if this client is sending you 15K/month then why don't you purchase the inlab system and give him what he wants?

It was $15k a month but now he is doing about 70% of that himself. It is $20,000 for the Cerec software and scanner, another 2500 a year to export an STL that I can mill on my system. And I still have to have a model to complete layered work on.... Another $30 bucks a pop. Then I have to figure out what to do about the accurate copings not fitting the inaccurate models ....... Know what I mean?

 

[rkm rdt]

If he is milling chairside then he won't be getting layered crowns anymore. Is he sending the other 30% to an inlab lab or you?

 

[charles007]

I see this as a lost account except for bridges and custom shading cases..
Do I smell a price increase,, lol

Seriously, not sure what I would do, it certainly wouldn't be buying a new cerec.. maybe a 3rd hand inlab at a steal of a price as a last resort. I would bet my last dollar the inlab mill will be replaced with a new model within the next 12-18 months..

 

[disturbed]

are you providing a service that the doctor cant match with a mill or are you making crowns he could pay a employee to point and click to get the same or close to the same results for waaaay less? if its point and click brainless technique why wouldnt a doc adopt it? he can turn around in a few hours. you offer that?... provide a service he cant match. show him how much better a layered emax is vs. fcZ. make a few samples to show him the diff. tell him that emax layered has a moh hardness of 4,matching natural enamel. tell him fcZ is around 7.5.. ask hom if a highly polished diamond still cuts class.. make him think. show him you know more than the robot he just purchased, show him how your years of tech experience make you better.if he doesnt care let him go. worked for me. just my 2 cents..

wheres my crowns?

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

I know a guy, who knows a guy, that knows a guy, that can handle somethings for ya.

I know the guy your talking about. He's my old best friends neighbors former roommate.

 

[RDA]

I just read this article from Dental Products Report. Ugh! Not great! The "common attitude" will become more common, and the patient will continue to receive mediocre restorations deemed acceptable because the dentist made it.

Sirona brings new milling units to chairside dentistry and on-site labs | Dental Products Report

 

[krashd133]

He has the new Omnicam. He says the crowns he fabricates off of his scans fit ok. It's the crowns I am fabricating off of the printed Cerec models that are the issue. They definitely fit the Cerec models when they leave my lab. The mouth is another story. I do believe the Omnicam scan itself is pretty accurate. Just the models being made from it that are the issue...

I've seen raw stl file scans from lots of the different systems and IMHO the Omnicam files are lower quality than the old Bluecam. There's micron accuracy data on the Bluecam matching iTero but nothing about the Omnicam in its specs. Another one of the dirty little secrets Sirona doesn't like to tell anyone about their systems...its all sunshine and roses when your a Cerec dentist right?

 

[Jurim]

FYI, the Sirona restoration export license is only active for models you have scanned in house on a Sirona scanner. Even if a doctor sends you an omnicam scan, you cannot export the restoration because it wasn't scanned by you

Ask me how I know this!

 

[rkm rdt]

How do you know this?