Coloring FCZ

[ZirMeister]

We have been experimenting alot with the shading of FCZ. we are using the Tanaka colors with a combination of painting and dipping. We can get all of the A and B shades but we struggle with all of the other shades. The 3D shades are almost impossible at this point!! I would like to get the 3D shades from Origin but they keep telling me 2 weeks, even after seeing them at Lab Day.

The Origin 3D Master shades are finally for sale and work good.

 

[alaa22]

can you upload your vedio plz ?

 

[RileyS]

So I'm looking for a tip on coloring a bridge. Do I add an extra coat on the pontic...2 coats? I'm using sagemax and Jensen XT with ZirkonZahn aquarrel.

 

[rich green]

Hi, new to the forums...so, greetings. I specifically made an account for this. We have been using the ZirkonZahn raw YZ stains since FCZ started appearing more frequently on the market. After reading some research into how the acid-based staining liquids (ZirkonZahn's were) can cause huge amounts of damage to your Zyrcomat over time, we decided to look for a new staining liquid. We picked up the Tanaka kit and i've been trying it out on random spare raw YZ units over the past week and a half or so. The problem i'm having is the Tanaka stains don't seem able to match value, so what we get out of the Zyrcomat after sinter is a crown whose value is completely off, and grayscale is not an easy fix with a deep chroma stain. I was wondering if there was another way to approach this staining other than the directions given with the kit. I've experimented a bit, thought about mixing the incisal shades with chroma, but they seem to just cancel each other out. Any tricks/advice would be most helpful. THANKS!

Value is always the hardest to hit. (3M1 is also hard) Zirconia is inherently "opaky" due to the stabilizers they have to use. First thing I would do is make sure your sintering furnace is accurate, and you are getting the correct amount of energy into the unit. There was a thread a while back that had a link about coloring zirc. You might try to find it.. On another thread a fellow tech mentioned his emax furnace was found to be off 30C. So. check furnace first. You may need to try different zirconia till you find one which works well for you. I use water based liquids so I cannot comment with any real knowledge about acid based stuff. May be some of the "soon to be available" ultra clear zirc will help us out. Also there are some liquids available to enhance the incisal from some zirc companies. That may help.

 

[BobCDT]

We are working on our LMT Chicago programs and it's on the list.

 

[Tad Philip]

4M1 & 3M1 shades are dead on with Origin 3D shades for pre-sintering colors

 

[CAD BANE]

So I'm looking for a tip on coloring a bridge. Do I add an extra coat on the pontic...2 coats? I'm using sagemax and Jensen XT with ZirkonZahn aquarrel.

Above you will see two test blocks of Zirconia. Both blocks are milled with a thinner side that consists of .5mm walls and a thick side that is a solid 10mm x 7mm. Both blocks are colored with the same coloring liquid (Lava Plus Liquid) and sintered individually based off the manufactures sintering temps. I placed the blocks on a light table so you can see the translucency or the lack of translucency. The block on the left is usually what you see with most manufactured zirconia on the market today. That is, nice color penetration through thin areas but hardly any penetration through thick pontic areas, leaving discoloration and "dead" looking zirconia. The result is mismatched shaded restorations from abutted teeth to pontics. The Jensen XT Zirconia (the block on the right) is manufactured differently allowing even penetration and even absorption of the coloring liquid. This allows deeper penetration of the coloring liquids giving you the result of matching pontics to the abutted teeth. This is also important when restoring individual teeth coming from the thicker Molar / Posterior region around to thinner Anterior region.
Notice the picture of the block by itself. Its even distribution of color and translucency regardless of how thick the zirconia is. No Chroma inhibitor is used or needed. Just color normally as you would your abutted teeth.

 

[stumpf]

Can you send me the STL file of this box?i would like test my zirconia too.my email is [email protected] Thank you

 

[RileyS]

Ok, how about hitting bleach shades with zirkonzahn aquarelle...like 1M1, 0M1,2,3, and the ivoclar bleach shades. Anyone have a formula you're willing to share? I've been trying to paint thins coats of A1 and B1 and haven't hit them yet.

 

[CAD BANE]

Ok, how about hitting bleach shades with zirkonzahn aquarelle...like 1M1, 0M1,2,3, and the ivoclar bleach shades. Anyone have a formula you're willing to share? I've been trying to paint thins coats of A1 and B1 and haven't hit them yet.

Use Lava Plus liquids W1 = OM1 and W3 = OM3 mix 4ml of liquid shade with 3ml of Distilled Water. You will be spot on.

 

[RileyS]

Use Lava Plus liquids W1 = OM1 and W3 = OM3 mix 4ml of liquid shade with 3ml of Distilled Water. You will be spot on.

Thanks for the response! I think I'm going to go ahead and order some of that then!

 

[Acrylic Innovation]

I have a lava guide that was made and fine tuned in one of the pilot labs... pm me and I will see if I can locate it

 

[Acrylic Innovation]

So I'm looking for a tip on coloring a bridge. Do I add an extra coat on the pontic...2 coats? I'm using sagemax and Jensen XT with ZirkonZahn aquarrel.

when using lava, I always brushed a coat of water on the pontics... this was after a lot of trial and error... the simple answer is that the thicker the restoration in any area, the more stain it is capable of absorbing... on a pontic I would do one coat over the pontic, (water) and a brush over the cusp tips. (with water) before I applied any stains... but Lava seems to penetrate further and faster that others I've used... and, this was also a milling center, so taking my time on a pre-sinter love affair with a crown wasn't an option... if you have the time to adjust, you can get close.
75 units a night was average, with very few complaints.
The blocks above, in my opinion, aren't an accurate representation... I've also milled/ stained/ sintered/ finished lava, lava plus, and Jensen side by side without a notable difference.

I can say that the biggest hurdle would be mastering your staining technique... for the longest time I kept a record and would adjust what I was doing based on the results... if I thought my A2's needed some chroma C, i'd brush a coat on last and adjust my log book till I found what worked. Pay attention to the thickness of the restorations and how much time it takes the stain to loose a "wet" look... if you keep those consistent, your staining will improve. example... 2 coats on a thin restoration may be way too much... whereas on a thicker restoration, it may not be enough. Start building a chart next to the staining station. Mandatory in my opinion!

when I switched labs and started using ZZ stains, the learning curve started all over again! damn it! even dry vs wet milling makes a big difference. wet milling tends to burnish the surface, and you may notice a higher "soak in" where the sprue was cut off.

another thought... metal tends to grey stains (so I was told in a 2 hour phone conversation with a Lava Tech) so don't use the brushes cast out by the porcelain dept... and don't leave the brush soaking in the stain. renfert takanishi #6 is what ive found to be the most consistent brush... they also last and are cheap.

just my 2 cents

 

[Acrylic Innovation]

Use Lava Plus liquids W1 = OM1 and W3 = OM3 mix 4ml of liquid shade with 3ml of Distilled Water. You will be spot on.

Yep, spot on

 

[Travdeez]

Do you guys heat up the crowns in green state before dipping/brushing or just as is....I was advised to heat them up before but my buddy at primotec said he just paints on shade as is.
Any thoughts?

 

[Andy Oh]

Use Lava Plus liquids W1 = OM1 and W3 = OM3 mix 4ml of liquid shade with 3ml of Distilled Water. You will be spot on.

hi cad bane, maybe it's so rude to ask you however do you think I could get your lava shade ratio if you don't mind to share with me? I'm using lava plus liquid to dipping crowns but I'm having really hard time to shade match.

 

[user name]

Brushes...anyone tried:

Colour Liquid Prettau® Aquarell Pen Brush?

 

[Bumfrey]

I bought some about 3 months ago but still in packet. Will let you know if i ever open them up.

 

[ABV]

Why bother with the unpredictability of coloring liquids...dipping or brushing? Just use pre-colored zirconia!

 

[NicelyMKV]

Why bother with the unpredictability of coloring liquids...dipping or brushing? Just use pre-colored zirconia!

Because the pre shaded discs do not match the shade guides. I prefer to pre sinter stain so all my color is not painted on the surface.